Talk:List of United States attorneys appointed by Joe Biden

Requested move 27 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved per consensus. (non-admin closure) Spekkios (talk) 03:34, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

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List of United States Attorneys appointed by Joe Biden → List of United States attorneys appointed by Joe Biden – Per MOS:JOBTITLES, here 'United States attorney' acts as the name of an office, not as a title, so it should not be capitalized. Frenzie23 (talk) 14:08, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:35, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. United States Attorney is a proper noun. It is a specific title of a specific officer of government. If we want generic lower case, it would be List of federal attorneys appointed by Joe Biden. WP:CONSISTENT with United States Attorney. - Station1 (talk) 06:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

This has been argued many times before. This is comparable to President of the United States and List of presidents of the United States. Please take a look at Talk:List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States/Archive_13#Requested_move_27_July_2019 Rreagan007 (talk) 22:29, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support: This is a list of people who are attorneys. The title of the list is not referring to the office of the United States Attorney. SchreiberBike | ⌨  18:15, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support: It should not be capitalised when plural (per kings of France example at MOS:JOBTITLES). Cinderella157 (talk) 00:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: U.S. attorney makes me think of an attorney from the United States, not an official of the U.S. government. You look at the press releases from DOJ, even they capitalize "attorney", i.e. "U.S. Attorney Announces The Appointment Of Chief Public Information Officer", "Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed Robert J. Troester as the United States Attorney for the Western District of Oklahoma effective December 26, 2021.", "U.S. Attorney Troester", etc. It is the office of an official, but said official is also referred as U.S. Attorney as a title, "Rachael S. Rollins, of Massachusetts, to be United States Attorney for the District of Massachusetts..." as evidenced here. Styling it as "attorney" just looks clumsy to me. Snickers2686 (talk) 01:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

It is not a question of whether you would capitalise the term when it is being used a job title in the singular (per your examples) but how it is capitalised in the plural. Cinderella157 (talk) 04:13, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Cinderella157: The example in the lede here United States attorney acts as the name of an office... is singular, not plural, so I didn't take that to be the differentiating factor. Snickers2686 (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

But for the article title, we are talking about United States "attorneys" in the plural. Per MOS:JOBTITLES, we would say: "Joe Biden is President of the United States" but "Ronald Raegan and Richard Nixon were presidents of the United States". If we add a modifier to the title or otherwise modify the title (such as plural) we use sentence case rather than title case. Pluralisation is the distinguishing matter for capitalisation. Cinderella157 (talk) 05:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Cinderella157: Then we'll agree to disagree. Snickers2686 (talk) 04:15, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support since plural, per MOS:JOBTITLES and the RM at Talk:List of presidents of the United States/Archive 13#Requested move 27 July 2019. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Interim U.S. Attorneys

@Snickers2686: I question whether interim or acting U.S. Attorneys should be included in this list, as interim USAs are either appointed by AG Garland or the federal district court, and acting USAs are First Assistant U.S. Attorneys who assume the position by virtue of the Vacancies Reform Act. They are not presidentially appointed. I would suggest only including those who received the advice and consent of the Senate and then are "appointed by Joe Biden", and (to my knowledge, none so far) acting USAs appointed by Biden who were holding another Senate-confirmed positions. Sierra1000 (talk) 03:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Sierra1000:: Well considering some of the acting US Attorneys have been such since at least March, I'd consider it disingenuous to not include them. Secondly, there's already precedent established via the List of United States Attorneys appointed by Donald Trump page that also includes acting/interim attorneys, some still currently serving and there wasn't an issue with it then so... Snickers2686 (talk) 04:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Snickers2686: I think this is an accuracy issue. Maybe the title of the list can be changed to reflect the fact that this would be a list about USAs appointed during the Biden administration, or something to that effect. If all acting USAs are to be included, just so you know, there would be a large number of them who assumed office around March when Trump-appointed USAs' resignations were requested. Sierra1000 (talk) 04:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Snickers2686: I am still of the view though, that First AUSAs who assumed office by virtue of the vacancies reform act should not be included. I have no issue with including interim USAs appointed by the AG or district court under 28 U.S.C. § 546. Sierra1000 (talk) 04:26, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Sierra1000: If you agree that those appointed by the AG should be included, then I'm not sure what your issue is with my additions as they were appointed/designated by Garland. Snickers2686 (talk) 04:18, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

@Snickers2686: I think none of the acting or interim ones should be included, as they are not "appointed by Biden". But my second best preference is to only include ones who are interim (i.e. appointed by Garland/District Court), but not acting US Attorneys under vacancies reform act. Just FYI, the South Carolina one you added was not appointed by Garland according to the USAO press release. Sierra1000 (talk) 04:58, 31 December 2021 (UTC)