Talk:List of active separatist movements in Europe

Separatism meaning

Most of the definitions of separatism I have seen(including from Oxford and Cambridge) seem to consider the term to only include outright secession into a separate state. So I find it odd autonomist movements are included here What makes things more confusing is that the top paragraph of this article considers separatism to simply extend to Recognition of a national minority. Yet this doesn't seem to be repeated in the criteria . So shouldn't autonomist and maybe ethnic rights movements get a separate page from this? Rad da writer (talk) 12:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regional_and_minority_parties_in_Europe

There seems to be a page for all these 3 types of movements interestingly. Rad da writer (talk) 12:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Raspberry Klin movement

Raspberry Klin movement - Independent Kuban is represented on thehttps://www.freenationsrf.org/leadership page is there a reason it is not on this page?

Thingsomyipisntvisable2 (talk) 18:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Missing russian sepratism

Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum Thingsomyipisntvisable (talk) 21:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Bad title

The term "separatist" is biased and pejorative. In fact, even the United Nations itself has said that people should be allowed to decide their own future. 81.130.151.3 (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Azerbaijan

@Archives908: The Jamestown source is from eight years ago but even if it were to be accepted, it clearly says "would like to create autonomous zones on both sides of the Russian-Azerbaijani border", so the movement cannot be described as secessionist, especially given that other, more recent sources describe it as defunct: [1]. More specifically, Jamestown in 2016 refers to "the announcement by Lezgin activists in 2012 that they were relaunching Sadval" whereas Kavkazsky Uzel in 2021 says: "In 2012, there was talk of reviving the movement, and a conference was even held in Moscow, but that was where it ended." More sources thus need to be provided to confirm that the movement is active.

I am also questioning the inclusion of the Federal Lezgian National and Cultural Autonomy as a political movement advocating for such initiatives given that the organisation's website describes its goals as follows: "Consolidation and development of Lezgin communities in Russia by preserving their identity, native language, national culture and education in the native language - in accordance with the federal law on national-cultural autonomies in the Russian Federation". How exactly is this related to Azerbaijan and its internal politics? Samur, according to the organisation's social media pages, is officially known as Samur Ləzgi Milli Mədəni Mərkəzi ("Samur National Lezgian Cultural Centre"); it can hardly be described as political, so I am not sure why it is on the list. Parishan (talk) 11:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

We generally don't remove credible sources on Wikipedia simply because its from "eight years ago". The source you provided is almost half a decade old and may itself be outdated. You are, however, more than welcome to add "clarify" or "citation needed" tags where you see fit. Archives908 (talk) 13:34, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

We definitely do remove them when they are not in line with the subject of the article ("active" and "separatist"). A piece of investigative journalism from three years ago which furnishes more up-to-date information on the issue supersedes a news coverage source from eight years ago. If you have more recent sources than 2021 (or "half a decade", if you will) tackling the issue, I am definitely interested. Otherwise I suggest moving it to List of historical separatist movements in Europe. Parishan (talk) 13:41, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

The source you provided is hardly authoritative and barely discusses the subject matter with great detail. The Jamestown source is far more scholarly and reliable. If you wish to add the movement to List of historical separatist movements in Europe, you will need to provide more credible (and recent) sources which back up the bold claims you are making. Archives908 (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Caucasian Knot is the recipient of Free Press for Eastern Europe and Geuzenpenning awards, so I am not sure how "non-authoritative" it is. The article also looks much more voluminous and informative than Vatchagaev's. There are definitely more sources, including a fellow Jamestown contributor Valery Dzutsati of Southern Illinois University, who corroborates the information from Caucasian Knot in his 2021 article: "Sadval’s separatist activities, however, largely subsided soon after Heidar Aliev came to power in Azerbaijan in 1993". More recently, Storm (2024) has referred to Sadval as "a seemingly fringe movement linking Lezgins in Azerbaijan with those across the border in Russia in the late 1980s–early 1990s". Again, no reasons to believe this movement persists into the present day, apart from Vatchagaev's outdated and contested statement. Parishan (talk) 15:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)