Talk:Characters of the Mortal Kombat series

Kung Jin

Kung Jin never was the first homosexual character in Mortal Kombat Mithology. In the games, yes, but in MK Serie no. Maybe you should do a better research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.104.215.248 (talk) 21:52, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Isn't he the first? So who are you talking about? Jirka.h23 (talk) 09:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

the 2 reptile women, Kiri and Anka i think, in Mortal Kombat Conquest were lesbian (or bi ?), also Melina had an affair with Tanya --10:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Character chart update

After discussion with another contributor, I have updated the character appearance chart in order to trim away excessive boxes. MK3 and UMK3 are now one section, likewise with MK4 and MK Gold, since the latter two in each are merely updates whose presence on the chart was redundant, the difference being just a few returning characters. The notes section has been updated to reflect this change, with the unnecessary "accidentally introduced" category additionally removed and numbers for some existing cats shuffled around as a result. sixtynine ^{• speak up •} 01:44, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Table Suggestion

The character table seems to be taking a lot of undue weight. However, most of the characters just made few appearances like Taven and his brother (Armageddon) and Shujinko (Deception, Armageddon and a cameo in X). Wouldn't be easier to explain the characters' appearances in their own sections in prose rather than relying on such a big table? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

• It should be always preferred to do it in prose, if possible. We just happen to give a blind eye to fighting game articles with regards to WP:GAMECRUFT. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 15:19, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

• Beemer69 is a more recurring editor to this franchise so I would like to his thoughts.Tintor2 (talk) 17:27, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
• Table is overkill (video game trivia). Scope of an encyclopedia is general knowledge, not determining which characters appeared in which games. I'd move it to Wikia. This article should focus—in prose—on what has been substantively written about these characters.  czar 17:51, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• Her thoughts, actually. ^_^ Anyway, yeah, the table has outlived its usefulness, especially with the arrival of MKX and the new (one-box) characters, not to mention the constant anon changing of the note numbers. Plus, since MK is much more straightforward than SF or Tekken with all their spinoff games, I think the page will get along okay without it. sixtynine ^{• speak up •} 17:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
• Since you think this table is useless, can I use this in the italian version? --FrancescoZOR (talk) 10:15, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Update: Removed second character table for the same reasons as above, mainly adding excess clutter and undue weight to an article that should focus on prose -- which itself is in dire need of cleanup -- and is already overburdened by MK's ever-expanding roster. Tables also open the floodgates for endless fan interpretation (and inevitable edit warring) of character appearances. Case in point, someone's already credited Mokap and Hsu Hao with "cameos" in MK11 even though they're mentioned by name only, plus it's insignificant trivia better suited for the MK Wiki. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:55, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

The table can still live in its own article. No harm done there. --uKER (talk) 18:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

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Wikipedia article descriptions (MK-related)

This feature of article descriptions, right under the title, is still quite new and most pages in Wikipedia at large seem to lack such additions so far. Despite the fact that Wikipedia prompts you occasionally into writing them. Given that the max cap of letters for said descriptions is 250, would it then be reasonable for us to write more comprehensive coverage on the article already into the description? Like, does it harm anyone? Hopefully we can have some discussion! ToniTurunen (talk) 09:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

new characters list (Mortal Kombat)

Hi ! Can we still make a Mortal Kombat list with all characters?--Boxfan88 (talk) 21:49, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

"Nimbus Terrafaux(Mortal Kombat character)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Nimbus Terrafaux(Mortal Kombat character) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 6#Nimbus Terrafaux(Mortal Kombat character) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:06, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

AFD merges

These merges are way out of depth for someone who is not familiar with either a) maintaining lists of characters, or b) Mortal Kombat. Hopefully someone who participated in the AFDs could assist, but as it stands, the merge I was planning for Baraka (Mortal Kombat) just covered the lead and maybe one sentence from development. That's not enough when comparing to the rest of the list. There's a lot of these to get through, and with an unknown and variable amount of detail that crosses over into excessive quite easily, I'd rather do it right the first time. Sennecaster (Chat) 22:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Merge discussions

Hi, I realized that the best way to get this going as a single discussion over the characters would be to do it myself, so... @Kung Fu Man: @Zxcvbnm: @Sergecross73: @GlatorNator: @Sennecaster: @QuicoleJR: @MoonJet:

So, my thinking is that we will go down the list of characters that have articles, and we'll just do a vote (not a !vote) to see where we stand. So, say, if Sub-Zero has virtually everyone supporting his article's continued existence, we move on. Otherwise, we can chat, do some research, and then figure out which articles are salvageable. Below, either mark that you Support the article's existence or Oppose it (without commentary in the sections) so we can get a read on where everyone stands. I'll also be linking to the discussion on the VG talk page.

Cassie Cage

• Support - QuicoleJR (talk) 12:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 16:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Ermac

• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Jax

• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Johnny Cage

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Kano

• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Kenshi

• Oppose - QuicoleJR (talk) 00:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:15, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Kitana

• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Kung Jin

• Oppose - QuicoleJR (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:05, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Kung Lao

• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Liu Kang

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Mileena

• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 16:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Raiden

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Reptile

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Scorpion

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - QuicoleJR (talk) 18:23, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Shang Tsung

• Oppose - QuicoleJR (talk) 20:33, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Shao Kahn

• Oppose - QuicoleJR (talk) 20:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Sonya Blade

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - QuicoleJR (talk) 20:39, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support - MoonJet (talk) 03:15, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Sub-Zero

• Support - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - QuicoleJR (talk) 18:23, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support - sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 18:56, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

I believe there's nothing to discuss here since most of them are notable, thou I think there may be for Kenshi (Mortal Kombat) I think. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 11:30, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I mean, in that case, we can just read that as support across the board (Kenshi aside). Still, I don't think that every article aside from Kenshi is inherently notable. For example, I'd argue that Kung Lao has potential issues that should be looked into. Plus, as Goro and Paul Phoenix show, being an icon of your given game doesn't necessarily mean that there's notability proven. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 11:36, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Another example would be Cassie Cage, who I think COULD be notable, but as it stands, only has a couple articles to cite that are about her and not a listicle. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 11:42, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

What may help with some of the smaller articles is if we clean out the garbage reception first, and with the rest look at what's actually being said and see if there's more in them.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:24, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

That's a good idea. It's a lot easier to be able to look at a glance at reception and know it's been pared down of junk. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:33, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Instead of marking them all individually, I'm just going to save the time and say I'm in support of keeping all 18 of the current MK character articles. It seems that all the ones that needed to be merged, had already had that done (and even then, there's a few that could be revived, due to sourcing not found at the time of the AFDs). That being said, some of them definitely need clean up. I'm ashamed to admit that I was the one who helped Niemti get Mileena to GA when I reviewed the article for him. I wouldn't have assigned it as such today. MoonJet (talk) 20:55, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Niemti is a pox, I swear. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 22:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll be honest, if anyone's going to work on these they're going to be better off starting over on a reception section, and then seeing what's left. A huge problem with Niemti's sourcing is a lot of times the sources...didn't actually say what he claimed. And there's so much overkill on there. I legit find it hard to believe a lot of this reception is genuinely about the characters when many others have a harder time getting close to that many references unless there's huge discussion. And often MK characters just don't have that.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:14, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

The embarrassing amount of sexual content he added long ago is a reason for many female characters' overly bloated reception sections. That was a key reason why Jade got merged; take it out and there's virtually nothing left about her. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 19:50, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

See I feel discussion about a character being sexy is good...as long as it says something. In Jade's case it's a valid point of discussion around her because much like Mileena, Midway/Netherrealm leaned into it (that whole vid where she rattles off her measurements). But a lot of the time the discussion is more focused on "WOW THIS CHARACTER IS HOT MOVING ON", and the actual listicles weigh down any real discussion on the character in the sections.

A real problem with so many of these is when you tear out all the junk, it's questionable to see what's left; I ran into this problem with Ibuki (Street Fighter), where's she's a Good Article but next to nothing really said about her that's tangible. So much in what's in the female MK character articles just needs to be nuked and started over. The well is thoroughly poisoned.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:00, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Jade, I feel has potential for her article to be revived too. Besides her sexuality, she's also one of the first (if not the very first) black women in fighting games, and I've found a source talking about that, and chances are, there's more. Plus, like Reptile before her, she was a secret fightable character in her debut game, so I wonder if there's any sources talking about that? Well, Noob Saibot and Smoke were secret fightable characters in the game too, but I have a feeling Jade has more than them. MoonJet (talk) 03:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

At the risk of sounding pedantic, Jade technically isn't black, while the sources in the AfD that mentioned her ethnicity were only in passing. She isn't really worthy of her own article because unlike Mileena and Kitana, her role in the series has been insignificant aside from being a bestie (Kitana) and a love interest (Kotal Kahn), while her secret character origins have nowhere near the fanfare of Reptile or Ermac. Not trying to pile on you, MJ, just giving my opinion. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 16:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Even though Jade doesn't have a big role in the story, she's still a popular character. Not as popular as Kitana and Mileena, but still quite popular in her own right. I'll try and see what else Jade has as far as coverage, but I'm going to focus on bringing back Goro's article first, now that I have Nightwolf out of the way. MoonJet (talk) 10:42, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

By the sound of it, the only characters that seem to have any issues anymore are Kung Jin and Kenshi. @QuicoleJR: @GlatorNator: @Kung Fu Man: Any thoughts on these? I personally think Kung Jin has adequate sources discussing him significantly as the primary topic, but Kenshi I've not yet looked into . - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 15:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking again, yeah, Kung Jin is fine. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:17, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Saying "there's nothing to discuss since most of these are notable" is defeating the point of this exercise. If we knew most of them were notable, we wouldn't be listing them for deliberation like this. I would heavily recommend putting the top several sources for each character next to them here so it can be proven that they have significant coverage. Otherwise, it's just taking people's word for it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

You didn't quote something I said. The only editors participating indicated that most of the articles were notable, and since at the time only two characters were pointed out, I asked about them. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:06, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Your assessment is out of date, Cukie. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, I looked up Sonya Blade and I found some articles that deal with Sonya Blade as a power fantasy and how the composition of her attack sounds affect the perception of the character: [1] Thoughts? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:06, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

For Kenshi, he's also covered in the book A History of Disability in Video Game Character Design, which is not currently cited in the article. The trouble is, I can't get full access to the book. I wonder if anyone else can? MoonJet (talk) 22:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

My two cents: I need to go into more depth regarding Kano, Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn (unfortunately there's only so many hours in a day) before casting a vote, but all three for me are on the fence. Shang's reception hasn't been updated in TEN friggin' years, so there's a possibility some stuff may be floating around out there. Yesterday I removed a ton of cruft from Mileena's article, which was utterly satisfying. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 16:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

So, I'm currently working on bringing back Nightwolf. Here's my sandbox. I copy-and-pasted the old article, removed several "bad sources," and added some new ones the discusses his stereotypes. Compare the current version to the pre-merged version. I also found this, but I'm not sure on its reliability. I also plan to bring back Goro and maybe Jade and Sindel, if I can find enough for them. Thoughts, @GlatorNator: @Kung Fu Man: and @Cukie Gherkin: MoonJet (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Added ping Zxcvbnm to user who also participated this discussion. Thou, I think I'm leaning to Oppose creation for now. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 00:07, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I feel pretty good about this draft. A lot of sigcov about his ethnicity and how his character design has changed over time. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:59, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Definitely getting there, I will say that last paragraph feels off though. I don't think it's you Moon, the study just comes across as odd?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:32, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree that the "empathy" part just doesn't work, not to mention the awkward comparison between Nightwolf and a character who couldn't be more different (Rain). But good work on finding the other sources. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 19:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man:, @Beemer69: Do you guys think I should just remove that whole paragraph then? If so, that would be fine by me. MoonJet (talk) 02:51, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Article Nightwolf has now been restored. After reading it, I think its better than before. Thou, I disliked how poorly the sources are formatted. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 11:32, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Playing devil's advocate: in past AfDs for Nightwolf it was stated that college theses were not viable sources due to the issue of original research. Why are they now allowed here? sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 16:34, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not certain about whether that is a policy or guideline position on Wikipedia, if either. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:49, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Master's thesis are situational sources, not completely unreliable. In the case of Samuel Martínez Linares (the author of Representation of Native Americans: From Literature to Video Games), he seems to be a college professor, if that's any help. MoonJet (talk) 18:59, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I know some were cited in Jill Valentine, which is an FA. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 20:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Is there a shell for merged templates? lol - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Playable Character Table

Can we have a Character Table like Super Smash bros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_in_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series#Playable_characters) for this article? This table can be put at top and be simplified to only contain playable characters. We can have one table for Timeline 1 and then second for Timeline 2 since we got a reboot from MK 2011. Thoughts? --Shoxee1214 (talk) 08:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Following is the sample table for the characters that debuted in MK Timeline or before the first reboot in 2011

Timeline 1 (1992-2006)

Fighter	MK	MKII	MK3 (UMK3/MKT)	MK4 (MKG)	MK:DA (MK:TE)	MK:D (MK:U)	MK:A	Playable Appearances
Johnny Cage								6
Kano								4
Liu Kang								6
Raiden								7
Scorpion								7
Sonya Blade								5
Sub-Zero	1							7
Baraka	-			DreamCast				4 (+1)
Jax	-					PSP		5 (+1)
Kitana	-			DreamCast		PSP		4 (+2)
Kung Lao	-			DreamCast				4 (+1)
Mileena	-			DreamCast				4 (+1)
Reptile	-							5
Shang Tsung	-							4
Chameleon	-	-	2					2
Cyrax	-	-		DreamCast				3 (+1)
Ermac	-	-						3
Goro	-	-		2		PSP & GameCube		3 (+1)
Jade	-	-						3
Kabal	-	-						3
Khameleon	-	-	N64				Wii	0 (+2)
Kintaro	-	-						2
Motaro	-	-						2
Nightwolf	-	-						3
Noob Saibot	-	-		2	GBA	3		4 (+1)
Rain	-	-						2
Sektor	-	-		DreamCast	GBA			2 (+2)
Shao Kahn	-	-				PSP & GameCube		2 (+1)
Sheeva	-	-						2
Sindel	-	-						3
Smoke	-	-				3		3
Stryker	-	-						2
Fujin	-	-	-					2
Jarek	-	-	-					2
Kai	-	-	-					2
Meat	-	-	-	2				2
Quan Chi	-	-	-					3
Reiko	-	-	-					2
Shinnok	-	-	-					2
Tanya	-	-	-					3
Blaze	-	-	-	-	2	PSP		2 (+1)
Bo' Rai Cho	-	-	-	-				3
Drahmin	-	-	-	-				2
Frost	-	-	-	-		PSP		2 (+1)
Hsu Hao	-	-	-	-				2
Kenshi	-	-	-	-				3
Li Mei	-	-	-	-				3
Mavado	-	-	-	-				2
Mokap	-	-	-	-	2			2
Nitara	-	-	-	-				2
Sareena	-	-	-	-	GBA			1 (+1)
Ashrah	-	-	-	-	-			2
Dairou	-	-	-	-	-			2
Darrius	-	-	-	-	-			2
Havik	-	-	-	-	-			2
Hotaru	-	-	-	-	-			2
Kira	-	-	-	-	-			2
Kobra	-	-	-	-	-			2
Shujinko	-	-	-	-	-			2
Daegon	-	-	-	-	-	-		1
Moloch	-	-	-	-	-	-		1
Onaga	-	-	-	-	-	-		1
Taven	-	-	-	-	-	-		1
Total	7	12	31 (+1)	18 (+6)	23 (+3)	424 (+6)	62 (+1)	-

Notes:

^1 Bi-Han's incarnation of Sub-Zero.
^2 Secret playable character.
^3 Playable as Noob-Smoke.
^4 Noob-Smoke are considered 1 character since they are a joint team.

There are THREE tables, all of which add unnecessary clutter to the article. We had just one before and it was removed before for that reason. It’s now worse especially with NRS’ hard-on for repeatedly rebooting the series. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 02:39, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

@Beemer69: Yeah. A lot of undue weight that can be easily described in the prose.Tintor2 (talk) 03:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding MK1 content

I know everyone’s racing to be the first to add new material from MK1 now that the game is out, but keep in mind that such content must include a viable source. Otherwise it’s original research. Also keep it as short and sweet as possible to avoid WP:FANCRUFT territory. Thanks and happy editing. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 22:51, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Should Takeda get his own page

Kung Jin can have one, but not Takeda? 131.242.7.46 (talk) 00:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

"Goro (Mortal Kombat" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Goro (Mortal Kombat has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 11 § Goro (Mortal Kombat until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 04:38, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

"Chosen Warrior (Mortal Kombat)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Chosen Warrior (Mortal Kombat) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 2 § Chosen Warrior (Mortal Kombat) until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 21:33, 2 August 2024 (UTC)