Talk:List of former state routes in Georgia

Requested move 6 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Some strong arguments on both sides here. However, the general consensus is that in line with WP:SHORTFORM, the "U.S. state" disambiguation is unnecessary. Opponents argue that the title is otherwise ambiguous, but supporters of the move counter that there are no "state routes" in the country of Georgia, so nothing to actually be ambiguous with.

Also noting that for the future this should've been bundled with the move of List of state routes in Georgia. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 17:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

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• List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state) → List of former state routes in Georgia
• List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state, 1–199) → List of former state routes in Georgia (1–199)
• List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state, 200–699) → List of former state routes in Georgia (200–699)
• List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state, 700–1109) → List of former state routes in Georgia (700–1109)

– These should be moved per the existing consensus for current state routes (Talk:List_of_state_routes_in_Georgia#Requested move 1 May 2023). It does not make sense for List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state) to carry a parenthetical WP:disambiguator when the WP:Base name doesn't exist (nor does it make sense for it to redirect to a disambiguated title, see WP:MISPLACED). Furthermore, including "U.S. state" in the WP:SPLITLISTs, forcing parentheses to carry two types of disambiguation, yields unwieldy and unnatural titles. Even if there is potential for confusion with the country, enwiki does not have a list of former routes for the country, so there is nothing to disambiguate. Hatnotes may be added to List of roads in Georgia (country) to give users seeking content about the country a place to find the most related information. Mdewman6 (talk) 23:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 18:45, 19 July 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom, WP:OVERPRECISION and WP:CONCISE. - Station1 (talk) 06:04, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose clearly defines scope, and we should endeavour to add a list for the country of Georgia for unsupported ex-government roads and highways in that country. The word "state" means "government" and also means "country", so can be contrasted as (government) "state route" or "private route" (such a private-tollway, or a private farm road) -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 23:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  The country of Georgia may be a "state", but there are no "former state routes" in the country, especially not numbered 1-1109. In any case, the basic title List of former state routes in Georgia will remain a dab page if you ever add a list. Station1 (talk) 03:21, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Clearly ambiguous. "State route" could be a generic term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
• Support. There is no need for the disambiguated title here. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:04, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
• Support moving List of former state routes in Georgia (U.S. state) to List of former state routes in Georgia, as it's already a DAB page. An entry can be added for former routes in the country if one exists, or a link in a see also section. No comment on the others.

Also, if the other moves don't pass, there should be an RM to revert List of state routes in Georgia to the disambiguated title. There shouldn't be inconsistency between these articles, as they cover the same base topic (state routes in the US state of Georgia). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

There is not content on enwiki about former roads (regardless of what you call them) in the country. And there already was an RM about List of state routes in Georgia, linked in the nomination. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:14, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I see that, and I'm saying that this group (minus the DAB) is on the same topic (State routes in the US State of Georgia) – having the former roads disambiguated and the current roads not makes no sense. I have no major preference past that (though generally, if there's no competing article, disambiguation is unnecessary). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 06:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Lists of former state routes in Georgia. Georgia country has no "state route" system. Also this is not a disambiguation, instead a list of lists. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (I will not see your reply if you don't mention me) 03:09, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

  To clarify, I support the other three. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (I will not see your reply if you don't mention me) 19:36, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

  That's a good point. I could see this either way, singular or plural. Either way, one should redirect to the other. Station1 (talk) 05:40, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - Very ambiguous. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:26, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

How so? Does the country of Georgia have "state routes"? Rreagan007 (talk) 22:23, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't. Opposing voices don't have anything substantial to offer. Killuminator (talk) 16:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose – The current guidelines might lead to the suggested move being the correct thing, but common sense says that the brackets are very helpful. Is the average reader supposed to know what the road network looks like in these two places and conclude that the suggested new title can only be about an American state? I think this is bordering geographical bias. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 15:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
• Comment couldn't the word state refer to a country and not necessarily an administrative division (such as a U.S. state, or a Canadian province)? cookie monster 755 17:02, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, but the phrase "former state routes in Georgia" refers only to the U.S. state and not any foreign country. Station1 (talk) 19:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support and, if necessary, reword the text so that the theoretical Eurasian routes vacuously meet the criteria for inclusion. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 21:48, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nominator. The word state makes it obvious which Georgia it is. Killuminator (talk) 11:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose This is an example of WP:SYSTEMICBIAS with preference to the US. The core base term Georgia itself is a DAB as it "most commonly refers to" the country or the US state. Arguments stating there are no former state routes the Georgia, the country, are rather embedded with prejudice that the reader would understand which Georgia this article is about based on the qualifier "former state routes" rather than "country" and "US state". The other RM Talk:List of state routes in Georgia#Requested move 1 May 2023 should also be overturned [at an MR]. This is not a case of WP:OVERPRECISION rather a proper case of DAB. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:59, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

  But if, as you correctly point out, Georgia itself is a dab page, why shouldn't List of former state routes in Georgia also be a dab page, listing all articles about all former state routes in both the country and the U.S. state? Station1 (talk) 18:23, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

  Sure, it can be — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 19:54, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:SHORTFORM, just as we have Georgia in the American Civil War, not Georgia (U.S. state) in the American Civil War. BD2412 T 01:05, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  U.S. state is redundant to American there. Here, it's not. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 02:00, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  It's not. Killuminator (talk) 16:22, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.