Talk:List of the lengths of United States participation in wars

Gross inaccuracies

This article should not be limited in sources to the associated press. The associated press is flawed in its calcuation of the length of the vietnam war. Virtually all reliable comprehensive authorities state that the vietnam war began in the 1950's, the exact date is somewhat disputed though the United States Government considers the Vietnam war to have started on 1 November 1955. The article Vietnam War itself uses this start date in its infobox. Therefore the Vietnam war is by far America's longest war listed on this list, and not the war in Afghanistan.XavierGreen (talk) 18:38, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam Starred

What is this indicating? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.45.77.30 (talk) 00:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Error on war timelines

Who are you trying to fool?

4. Iraq War 2003/03 – 2005/06 3.7 years (3 years, 7 months) 5. American Revolutionary War 1775/04 – 1783/09 8.4 years (8 years, 5 months)

A grad school kid realizes that the American Revolutionary War is not represented correctly by the blue bar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.140.6 (talk) 11:57, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Vietnam War ran from 1 November 1955 to 30 April 1975, about twenty years. (As determined by the Department of Defense.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.135.154 (talk) 02:39, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

References

Vietnam updated

http://benefits.va.gov/PENSIONANDFIDUCIARY/pension/wartimeperiod.asp

Vietnam

The US didn't send combat troops into Vietnam until 1965. The war started in 1955, but if this article is supposed to reflect US involvement then I think we should peg the start date as 1965. Until 1965 we only had advisers in Vietnam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZacharyGeorgeNN (talk • contribs) 18:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Wrong remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident and Operation Sunrise. we had been fighting since 1959.--76.107.252.227 (talk) 01:29, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Please see this reference Stewart, Richard W., ed. (2005). "THE U.S. ARMY IN VIETNAM BACKGROUND, BUILDUP, AND OPERATIONS, 1950-1967". AMERICAN MILITARY HISTORY VOLUME II. Washington, D.C.: Center of Military History. ISBN 9780160841842. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

According to this reference Military Assistance Advisory Group had been in Vietnam since at least 1950, back when it was French Indochina. In 1960, there were 700 American military personnel already in South Vietnam. The first American aviation/helicopter companies arrived in December 1961. The U.S. State Department, gives August 1964 as the start date. Then there is this book ( Kathryn Statler (22 June 2007). Replacing France: The Origins of American Intervention in Vietnam. University Press of Kentucky. p. 6. ISBN 978-0-8131-7251-4. ), that gives 1950 as the beginning year of U.S. involvement --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:10, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

War on Drugs

Could the war on drugs be removed from this list? It has little-to-no military involvement, never received a declaration of war, and involves no combat against a foreign government or politcal body. Ashleyisachild (talk) 17:22, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

War vs engagement

The title should be changed to "Length of U.S. participation in major wars and engagements". The U.S. hasn't declared war since World War II. The Iraq and Afghanistan "wars" are essentially the same as the "war" on drugs and the "war" on poverty. The fact that they are generally known as "wars" do not make them an officially declared war. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States --WikiTryHardDieHard (talk) 01:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

The exact definiton of a "declaration of war" is an adademic and semantic squabble. Whether begun by formal declaration of war or mere authorization of military force—or even by emergency presidential order, it's generally agreed that military conflicts waged by government are still wars. - Embram (talk) 03:29, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

What counts as a "major war"?

If we count those with >100 US losses, then Kosovo War should not be included, but we should add Moro Rebellion, Nez Perce War, Creek War, and Red Cloud's War. If over 75 is sufficient, then Black Hawk War and Dakota War of 1862 would be added too.--Pharos (talk) 21:33, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

@Pharos: I would argue that "US losses" is a very poor metric for inclusion. The most successful military conflicts have very few if any losses and categorizing one conflict as major versus another based on body count does a disservice to the many successful military campaigns that had few if any losses. The objective of war, regardless of scope, is the peace that follows, not body count. A much better formulation for inclusion would be something like "armed conflict between organized U.S. military forces and organized forces of (a) belligerent(s)". I would eliminate the phrase "conventional forces" as that has specific meaning within military circles and has no relevance to whether a military conflict occurred. --Mike Cline (talk) 13:59, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that "major wars" is problematic by any metric. My main concern was this list was previously ignoring most armed conflicts that were conducted within U.S. borders, which ignores much of American military history.--Pharos (talk) 22:03, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

@Pharos:, I have adjusted lead to remove "Conventional" and expand potential for "all" U.S. participation in wars.--Mike Cline (talk) 15:36, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 5 April 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. I will be staring a new move request shortly. Steel1943 (talk) 16:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC) Steel1943 (talk) 16:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

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List of the lengths of American participation in major wars → List of the lengths of American participation in armed conflicts – Major war doesn't exist and Major wars redirects to a section about ongoing wars (which is not the scope of this page since it also lists wars in the past), so current title is misleading. With this reasoning, moving this article to List of the lengths of American participation in wars may also be an option, but some articles I have found thus far regarding wars have the term "war" listed as "armed conflict" in their titles. Steel1943 (talk) 20:40, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

• Partial Oppose Since the lead says: Lengths of U.S. conventional combat forces' participation in major wars I would much prefer the title: List of the lengths of U.S. participation in armed conflicts as it leaves no doubt as to whose forces are involved. Agree with "armed conflicts" element as "major war" is ambiguous and far too subjective. --Mike Cline (talk) 13:45, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose – The best alternative would be List of the lengths of American participation in wars, as "major" doesn't mean anything. I oppose use of abbreviations in the article title, "armed conflict" is just a WP:EUPHEMISM, and I'm not sure that this article is limited to "conventional combat forces", whatever those are. RGloucester — ☎ 16:52, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wars that should be added to the timeline

• [Indian Wars|American Indian Wars] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.63.218 (talk) 15:34, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
• Philippine–American War N (part of Moro Rebellion; or vice-versa?)
• Second Sino-Japanese War N (US involvement was a part of WW2)
• Invasion of Grenada Y (fighting only lasted three days, but that still counts: 113 people were killed including 24 civilians)
• United States invasion of Panama Y
• Pig War N (no actual fighting occurred)
• Red Cloud's War Y
• First Seminole War? (timespan seems very ambiguous)
• Second Seminole War Y
• Third Seminole War
• First Barbary War Y
• Second Barbary War
• Mohave War
• Nez Perce War
• Northwest Indian War Y

--Mike Cline (talk) 13:27, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

I added responses to some of the suggestions above. Please join in if you disagree with any of my conclusions or have anything to add. Thank you @Mike Cline for the list! BananaCarrot152 (talk) 01:19, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Should we really be splitting out the different "Indian Wars" like this? By splitting them out such as we have -- which is more individual campaigns than anything -- we are losing much, to include that many of them are strongly tied together. At the very least we should contemplate looking at the tribe involved and the timeline because splitting them out is misleading when often the cited conflict was merely a small piece of a large conflict that was composed of many skirmishes, spread out due to the seasons and the methodology used by many of the tribes (particularly on the Great Plains and in the deserts). I think that if we are "ranking" conflicts by time, it is misleading to split out the different campaigns between the United States and the various tribes based on what were largely seasonal activities from the Native Americans (many of which would stop most of the fighting and raiding and "winter" -- of course Sheridan had his winter campaign). JamusDoore (talk) 14:35, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree we should examine the splitting up of connected conflicts. Looking over the list I don't see any obvious ones to combine though, do you have any in mind? I know very little about these "Indian Wars". BananaCarrot152 (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- QEDK (T ☕ C) 16:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

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List of the lengths of American participation in major wars → List of the lengths of American participation in wars – Major war and Major wars do not exist, so this title could be somewhat misleading in regards to identifying the term. Steel1943 (talk) 16:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Pinging Pharos and Mike Cline, recent participants on this page who have not yet participated yet. (I was about to ping RGloucester as well, but they responded to this almost immediately.) Steel1943 (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

• Support as a sensible alternative to the last proposal. RGloucester — ☎ 16:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Seems reasonable. Egsan Bacon (talk) 18:22, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
• Support - Makes inclusion criteria so much easier. --Mike Cline (talk) 19:52, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

United States

This really should not be "American", vide United States Army, President of the United States...--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 19:07, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Kintetsubuffalo, after consideration, this seems reasonable. This is the "United States'" military history, after all. Sleyece (talk) 17:36, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

War in Afghanistan still ongoing?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The page War in Afghanistan (2001–present) was recently moved from "War in Afghanistan (2001–2014)" because it was deemed that the war is still very much ongoing (over 13,000 troops (6000+ US) remain without any formal plans to withdraw). It seems from the definition used on this page that the war should also be listed as ongoing here:

"Armed conflict" Yes, the official mission also includes counter terrorism operations, not just advising.

"U.S. military forces" Yes, over 6000 on the ground.

"Belligerents" Yes, Taliban, Al Queda, and others.

Any objections? BananaCarrot152 (talk) 03:48, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Seems fair, I can't really figure out the formatting in the table but you should go ahead and do it. - SantiLak (talk) 07:17, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Done. BananaCarrot152 (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Korean conflict

The Korean conflict is the longest[1]. Its been going on since 1945. Not sure why people on here want to pretend its not a war.--Fruitloop11 (talk) 02:36, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Fruitloop11 https://apjjf.org/2021/22/Suh.html, entitled The Forgotten US Forever War in Korea, suggests you have a point. Mcljlm (talk) 16:26, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

lol I had forgotten I’ve wrote this. Fruitloop11 (talk) 05:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Additional wars

University of Texas associate professor of history Aaron O’Connell mentions several other conflicts which could be added to the list: https://millercenter.org/issues-policy/foreign-policy/presidency-endless-war/afghanistan-uss-longest-war-it-depends-how-you-count. Mcljlm (talk) 15:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

I added the United States occupation of Haiti. There's clearly more we can add. BananaCarrot152 (talk) 21:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

US intervention in Yemen

What about the US intervention in Yemen from (2002–present)? Doremon764 (talk) 14:26, 11 June 2024 (UTC)