Talk:Lupin the Third/GA1

GA Reassessment

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This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, listed below. I will check back in seven days. If these issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   Lead is not a proper summary of the article (see WP:LEAD. It introduces too many facts not already cited in the article proper, and does not include a summary of the reception. Fixed From earlier discussions, I understand Lupin III is fairly episodic without any overall plot. Does it have any kind of ending at all? Or just ends in the "and they keep going" type fashion? Headers go against the overall MoS and need a little clean up (Manga series -> Manga, Television series -> Anime, Strange Psychokinetic Strategy -> Live-action film, Music -> Soundtracks, Original animation videos (OVAs) -> Original animation videos). I'd consider merging Anime Pilot film and Animated theatrical features into a simpler "Anime films" section. Also missing some italics on magazine and media titles. Dates should be American format, not International, to be consistent with other articles in the franchise. References very badly formatted and in need of much work. A bunch at the top that are not in-line but do not appear to be using the short-note style referencing either. Also missing publication information on several references. ELs need clean up. Link names should be simple and not have parentheticals after each. Japanese links should be marked with {{Ja icon}} instead of just a bit of text. Infoboxes also need cleaning up (English releases should be separate from rest; not sure how best to address the insane number of OVAs/films/etc), and the image is fairly useless. Just a logo that repeats the text. Per general consensus, should be a volume from the manga, preferably the first volume. Also in need of some heavy copyediting to address various issues, including single sentence paragraphs, choppy writing, weasel wording (numerous is used 4-5 times, many is used 5 times, etc), and some tonal issues. Fixed

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   lupinthethird.info appears to be a self-published fansite and not an "official" site likes its citation implies. What makes this site WP:RS? What makes Dragon's Lair Project a reliable source? ANN encyclopedia is not a reliable source but is listed as a reference. Spotted a few unsourced statements in "Original animation videos (OVAs)", and several of the "other publishers" in the infobox are not supported by citations in the text. Fixed

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Is there no production information available for this series at all? The infoboxes list over a dozen TV specials, but the section on television specials just mentions a couple in a sporadic fashion. Section needs to be a better summary of the list it leads out to. The music section seems to be part production type info, and only mentions the US CD releases. What about the releases in Japan? Any other soundtracks (not singles) released there that didn't get released? The reception section seems spartan and choppy, and has little reception on the manga beyond the ICv2 note and the note from Manga: The Complete Guide. No one else has reviewed the manga? Any sales information? The Lupin III Encyclopedia seems to note some reception for each of the major aspects which is not indicated here as well. Fixed

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Several sections showing too much American biased without mentioning or giving adequate coverage of the original Japanese works. Music section, as noted above, and the video game section in particular. The video game section start with the first game released in the US, though it wasn't the first game in the series. As with the music section, this needs to be a better summary of the overall list it links to and something more specific than "numerous" to describe the releases. Fixed

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Though the logo has the appropriate FUR, as noted above a manga cover is a more appropriate image to use here.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Lots of work needed here, some quick fixes, some a bit more involved. Recommend recruiting help for the copyediting and expanding the areas lacking. Questions/comments can be left below (please do not add comments directly in the GAR above as it makes it confusing). Page will be on my watchlist for the duration of the GAR. Good luck!  Fixed-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

A few quick comments. I can't believe I missed an ANN ency reference, and it was right at the top of the reflist *facepalm*. They do in fact "just keep going". For copyrighting, I'll see if Quasirandom or someone can do it once the rest of the work is done. The japanese soundtracks would never possibly fit into the main article, that will require a dedicated article as we are tlking several dozen soundtracks, plus remixes, compilations etc. Image change was easy, as the replacement was in the old revision of the page. To my knowledge, there aren't huge amounts of production info (in english at least), but I'll have a dig about. Dandy Sephy (talk) 02:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I might merge the games into the article. The list article is just a grid which is covered in prose, and the separate game articles are all lacking proof of notability and are incrediably basic. While the number of games is fairly large, I don't see the benefit of separate articles of any kind, even as a list. Any objections? Dandy Sephy (talk) 20:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm...actually, I think maybe the first option would be to first merge the individual video game articles to the list. I think trying to put the list here in the main would end up giving undue weight to them and bloat the article a bit (especially trying to do all of the Japanese names and release dates in a clean format). BTW, for those items that do have a standalone list, I don't think you really need to do the full nihongo here in the main, just list the official English (if there is one) or Romaji titles, with a link to the listing if appropriate/available. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You timed that reply on purpose didn't you.....*facepalm* Presumably this also means I don't need to list licensed dvd dates for the specials. It's going to be a dry section though. Dandy Sephy (talk) 13:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL, I swear I didn't! :) And I'd say probably not every one, just highlight the main ones. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Checklist

• Lead not a proper summary
• Lead introduces new facts
• Merge Pilot/Films - Done

• Lack of italics for media names -done?
• Reference formatting - done, seeking approval pt II
• Infobox cleanup
• Copyedit (general and writing style) - will need to recruit someone when the other issues are done, but I'm trying to do the obvious things to the best of my ability

• Unsourced statements - Should be done?
• Music/soundtracks
• Manga reception? - None of the major sites seem to have bothered
• Sales information? - Difficult, other then a simple statement that the 2nd manga series undersold in the US which led to cancellation

• American bias - Should be pretty much done except the soundtracks

Dandy Sephy (talk) 21:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Updated above, though "theatrical features" could be shortened to just films, which would then fit the merging (if desired) :) Fixed a few last dates as well. For the references, they are much improved, but still have a few issues. Does the Lupin Encyclopedia have an author? Some refs still missing authors (#3 with is duplicated at ref 34, the various Nausicaa refs, also several have author's listed first name lastname instead of lastname, firstname). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:36, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

TBH listing the author for LupEncy didn't occur in the way it would have if it was a review. Ditto Nausicaa.net, although i just ran a search/replace on those :p I'll do those tonight or tommorow. I'll probably want an extension :P We really need some manga reviews, I've not found any unless we count mania's forum (written by the LupEncy guy, but probably not RS on the forum right?) Dandy Sephy (talk) 22:46, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Correct, the forum review wouldn't count. I still need to look through my Animerica's to see if I can find anything there. Will try to get that done tonight/this weekend. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nausicaa is edited by "Team Ghiblilink" rather then individual authors, they don't seem to attribute comments to specific writers. Dandy Sephy (talk) 23:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

BTW, in case you hadn't seen, I added two sourced bits about The Castle of Cagliostro to its article. Out of curiosity, why is it named The Castle of Cagliostro instead of Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro when the latter is how it were released? Ditto the other films? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Odd, I thought it was on my watch list already. The official english title is "The Castle of Cagliostro", and is how it's released in the UK, and to my knowledge, North America and Australia. Both the first UK and first US DVD release shared the same cover and title (Castle of Cagliostro) [1]. Offhand, I'm not sure how the other ones were initially released in English, I'll look into it a little later. I'm hoping to get this finished (copyedit aside) tonight/tommorow. The most noticeable things still to do seem to be the lead and the soundtrack list. I'm about to make use of the links provided below, and start a basic soundtrack list article. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done a one week extension to allow me time to check the new work, and allow y'all time to work on the remaining issues and get things copyedited :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

As work appears to still be going on, I've extended one more week. Go go go! :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit

I'll do a copyedit, but be aware that while I'm familiar with the general series premise, I haven't actually read or seen any part of it; you may need to sweep up after me if I misreword something along the way. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Not a problem, I'm glad you are sparing your time and expertise :) And yes, they really did do a Conan crossover special :p Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether to sit slackjawed in awe at the concept or jump directly to *facepalm*. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

"genius" thief vs "genius" detective. Sounds like a winner to me (Not seen it yet though). Dandy Sephy (talk) 17:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Query: Is there any particular reason why there's three columns in the references? That makes for awfully small columns of print unless you have a big screen. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Good question and it should just be two. 3+ cols is pretty hotly disputed and frown on in articles now. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It was like that the first time I had looked at the article (months and moths ago). I'm not keen on 3 columns myself, but it did make it a bit easier to check the reference formatting. Dandy Sephy (talk) 03:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Next comment: the Manga section is missing enough information that I'm having trouble effectively editing it. For example, while we get the dates of serialization for the first series, there's zippo on how long it is, not even number of volumes. For some of the later series, we have no dates, nor where serialized, nor length of the series. No two of the five series have the same kinds of information, which make organizing it ... difficult. (At minimum, each series needs dates of start/stop serialization, where serialized, and the number of collected volumes. Foreign licensors would also be good, but that's the next level of info.) —Quasirandom (talk) 04:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Ill take a look after work. Dandy Sephy (talk) 05:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I've added a few details, but it's not finished. I'll let you know when it's got all the info I can find. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

'K -- I'll work around it. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Done as best as I can. Soundtrack section will need reexamining once I make some changes there. Plus the lead needs expanding. That should be pretty much evertything then. Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha -- I'll finish the Reception before coming back to the Manga. The additions look good. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll be done with the rest of the article some time tomorrow, so this would be a good time to finish this. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

First manga series licensed in Spain. Ediciones Mangaline Series->Colleciòne 38mm->Paginas: 2 --KrebMarkt 13:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Bump: Kappa edizioni the Italian publisher --KrebMarkt 13:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding them. Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The Television specials section needs two references: one's missing and the other has the wrong URL, both marked with {{cn}} tags. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Done. Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Per request, updated the checklist above. Getting closer :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactly how does the tv special section need summarising better? It lists the broadcast dates of them all, what else needs mentioning? Same for music, how can I summarise the japanese soundtracks better so that it gives equal coverage? 2 albums vs 60albums makes it very hard to give neutral bias in a summary (and I've not go an easy reference to state how many soundtracks exist - the vap page doesnt cover columbia releases even if I could get all of them on a single page to source). Lead, well I'm just not good at those as you know :p Dandy Sephy (talk) 00:27, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I noticed the VAP store gave a total number of albums for their releases, so there is now a rough count of available albums added to the section. Not got a total for columbias releases though, they released far more then their website suggests. Also added a dvd/blu-ray release of music. Dandy Sephy (talk) 01:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for going AWOL there, but I got hit by a crash 48-hour editing job, just turned in. I'm going off for a nap and maybe one of AnmaFinotera's margaritas, then come back to finish editing the Reception and Manga sections, then another pass through for buff-and-polish. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Cool :) Meanwhile, I've gone ahead and extended the GAR another week. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yay, now I can spend the next week making ridiculously incremental edits again :P Dandy Sephy (talk) 22:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

There -- I think that's a pass through all the sections. Anything else? —Quasirandom (talk) 03:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Another note, some of the AoD links are dead and need to be updated to their new Mania links, or have an archive link added. See list for a list. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

On it now. Dandy Sephy (talk) 01:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Well i would be if you weren't doing it while I messed around with toolserver :P Dandy Sephy (talk) 01:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL, I was bored and procrastinating on something else. Should all now be fixed :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit on the last round of sections done. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Awesome...GAR closed as kept :) Great work everyone! (and hey, look, that was a collaboration effort! :-D) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Some links

Here some interesting links for soundtracks section:
[2] from there are the CDs [3] & the Jazz CDs [4] with very limited redundancy. --KrebMarkt 14:53, 4 July 2009 (UTC)