Talk:Láadan

Audio file(s), please

Could we please get an audio file or two added to this article? At the minimum, I'd like to hear the name of the language. A sample text or two would also be good. Thanks. -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 15:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a clip for the name. I'll see about example sentences later. Arlo James Barnes 18:50, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Notability

A WikiProject rates this article as being of high importance. I think that should help indicate that the article is notable. The subject is obscure because it is in a rather obscure field, but it does seem to be a first in that field as well as having a rather unique purpose as a constructed language. — 500Afs (talk) 08:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Long time listener, first time caller here: I landed on this page because I actually had heard about Láadan through (I think) an NPR radio piece in the last year; in any case, I was glad to find the entry here. Apparently there is a word in the language for the state of being "upset but nothing can be done about it." Was hoping to find confirmation. Anyway, this all is meant to constitute a piece of evidence in favor of notability. — 67.166.158.101 (talk) 22:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

If that NPR piece can be found again, that could be a useful source. So far I've found an unrelated interview in Talk of the Nation with Dr. Elgin about her book The Grandmother Principles.
As far as the word in question, the second declension nouns (for negative emotions) have suffixes specifying causes of the emotion and whether anything can be done. — Arlo James Barnes 19:08, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Isn't saying "A WikiProject rates this article as of high importance and therefore it is of high importance" like saying "I am important because I say I am important?" Because that's what it sounds like to me. I'm not saying it isn't notable, but the reasoning behind that to me seems flawed logically. — 67.1.1.103 (talk) 19:22, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

While the subject is certainly notable, I concur that we've got a prime morsel of circular reasoning there. — Orange Mike | Talk 01:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Pinging @Altenmann: since they added a general notability tag in January of this year, and this section seems the most relevant to that concern. As to specific notability within the topic area of constructed languages, there is a guide as to why WP Conlangs believes this subject to be of 'high' importance: "Subject is extremely notable, but has not achieved international notability, or is only notable within a particular continent." That's not quite true since Dr. Elgin's language guides were published in multiple languages and there is a community center in Turin named after the language. That said, it's certainly not as well-known a language as (say) Esperanto, so a 'top' importance is unwarranted. IMO the more relevant part of a rating is the class, which isn't WikiProject-specific and has been assessed as 'start', accurately I would say. — Arlo James Barnes 18:56, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

We have clear instructions about notability: coverage in depth in multiple independent sources. Therefore Dr. Elgin's activities do not count. As I see, nothing changed since January, so I am strongly inclined to list it to AfD. — Altenmann >talk 19:05, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

I think an AfD discussion could be productive for any of the usual outcomes (delete, keep in-situ and improve if possible, or merge to a reduced subsection of Suzette Haden Elgin). Independent sources exist which acknowledge but don't really describe the language. — Arlo James Barnes 19:11, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Good point about the possibility of merging, but I would suggest Native Tongue (Elgin novel) as the merge target. — Altenmann >talk 19:19, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

The first novel mentions only two words within the language besides its name, and just one explicitly (héenahal). That said, it's likely the earliest durable publication of the word 'Láadan' in English. — Arlo James Barnes 04:10, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Tenses

Some elaboration on the tense system would be helpful. For example, how to handle mixed-tense sentences like "I think(present) that he will run(future)." or "I arrived(past) on Monday, and will leave(future tense) on Thursday.". In addition, how to differentiate between "come" and "go". 75.118.51.238 (talk) 20:35, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll answer the second question first since it's easier. In Láadan: sháad is the way to say someone or something is moving from one place to another (Wiktionary). Some languages use deixis to further specify the relationship to the speaker — coming here or going away — but Láadan uses cases instead. It is possible to specify whence an action proceeds with a source case using the suffix –de, and whither it is directed with a goal case using the suffix –dim; however, it is acceptable to leave it unspecified. This flexibility also occurs with Láadan: eb (transact/buy/sell, Wiktionary) and Láadan: bel (carry/bring/take, Wiktionary). Arlo James Barnes 18:40, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Plural

At one point in the article, it says that the plural is only formed by adding me- to the verb. However, one of the examples in the morphology section is ana worulethe, meaning "the cats' food"; note that "cats'" is in the plural. If ana means "food", rul means "cat" as shown by an earlier example, and -ethe indicates possession, what does the wo- prefix indicate? --Numberguy6 (talk) 00:54, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

It's the relativizer affix: http://laadanlanguage.org/16.html Arlo James Barnes 02:55, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

It also says "The suffix -zh is used to mark a plural pronoun for numbers up to four, and -n for numbers beyond that." What about exactly four? Thisisnotatest (talk) 07:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Pronouns, as in English, fill the position of nouns and are treated, grammatically, like nouns—except that Láadan pronouns, unlike Láadan nouns, have plural forms. Unlike English pronouns that have only a singular and a plural form, each Láadan pronoun has three forms: a single form, a few-to-several (defined as 2 to 5) form, and a many (defined as more than 5) form. They’re all perfectly regular, so for pronouns introduced in future lessons, we’ll be given the single form and the plurals will be easy to work out.

— Láadan Lessons 4, emphasis not in original. See grammatical number § Paucal. Arlo James Barnes 07:33, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

"views of women"

The article fails miserably to demonstrate that it does a better job to show that it is a "language aimed at expressing the views of women". I do not believe that the removal of he/she serves this. — Altenmann >talk 19:27, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you want changed. If you mean we should be able to prove that Láadan does or doesn't adequately address issues of language and gender, well, that's not the role of a Wikipedia article. If you mean that statements regarding Láadan's treatment of grammatical gender should be better elucidated or sourced, then I am in agreement. I see you put a {{clarify}} tag at the end of the lede, so perhaps that is a particular target for improvement. — Arlo James Barnes 21:50, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

"We" should not prove anything. I wrote what I meant: the article content does not address the lede, leaving the reader, e.g., me, wondering how the heck 2 tones, 5 vowels, and 3 particles make it more women-friendly. --Altenmann >talk 22:25, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

I didn't mean you and/or I necessarily, but English Wikipedia. we § Editorial we is the name of that type of usage it seems. Anyway, I think I understand better now. I will attempt some edits to improve the comprehensibility. Arlo James Barnes 00:40, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

to look into

• list of languages by first written account § After 1500
• Pro-form

— Arlo James Barnes 06:01, 22 April 2026 (UTC)