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Talk:YWAM Koha

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Notability

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Latest comment: 10 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Noted that tagged per WP:GNG by user:Atlas-maker. I think that this ship, which in her first 46 years has been operated for three Governments in three continents in varying roles and is currently providing the life-line transport link to one of the remotest territories in the world, meets the GNG criteria. It is sufficiently documented in RS (I have eschewed excessive duplication) and has over 19k non-WP Google hits. No doubt there is more to say about this vessel as RS come to light, particularly on her earlier lives in Germany and South Africa. Davidships (talk) 11:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'd have to disagree. There is nothing notable about the ship itself. That she is engaged in the Pitcairn trade is worthy of a mention on the Pitcairn page. I also don't believe that it meets many of the criteria laid out in GNG
  • Significant coverage in reliable sources that address the topic directly and in detail - well no. There are a few RS in there but they don't, by and large, address the topic in detail. The National Geographic ref is about the best. It is reliable, and secondary, and has a 5/6 line paragraph specifically about Claymore, but really doesn't add anything thats not available elsewhere. Except the fact fact that when not on the Pitcairn trade, it is available to do other things, at a cost.
  • Sources should be secondary sources The ship registers are primary sources, other than Miramar which seems to be a crowd sourced hobbyist list, and is certainly not used in the commercial world. Not at all sure about its authority. The SunLive is a poorly disguised advertorial in a local media outlet. Not a reliable source.
  • Independent of the subject excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent The Pitcairn tourism site is pure advertorial
Sorry. Good effort, but no cigar. Atlas-maker (talk) 12:48, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply
Regardless of what conclusion may be reached, permit me a few observations on your comments.
  • Lloyd's Register of Ships is not simply a primary source as only the information for a minority of the vessels included is generated by LR, viz those classed by LR. On all other ships LR receives the information from a variety of external sources and subjects it to very detailed editorial control before publication. Claymore II has never been classed by LR. That sounds secondary to me. The main commercially-used ship registers/databases - most notably IHS-Fairplay's 'Seaweb' - are entirely secondary in nature, with strong editorial oversight, and are again highly reliable (I referenced LR for current information as the printed books are more accessible for verification than than 'Seaweb', which is behind an expensive paywall). In any case, reliable primary sources are acceptable for factual material, where good secondary ones are not available.
  • Pitcairn Island Tourism is the official tourism board, like VisitBritain, but a bit smaller. Like all such, it presents factual info (visas, transport links, health regs, history) as well as neutral info on all local providers. It's not advertorial at all.
  • SunLive is the online version of Sun Media's local newspaper for Tauranga/Bay of Plenty region. It's normal to add contact details at the end of journalist-produced editorial features nowadays (of course, WP prefers large national reliable media sources to smaller local ones, but that's a different matter). Davidships (talk) 15:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply
Ok, Atlas-maker, your opinion is noted. In mine the basic requirements for references and a ship of enough note to include—certainly more notable than many an entertainer or sports figure featured here—have been met. The comment by Djembayz on the Ships project page concerning ship notability is also applicable. I'm removing the flag. Palmeira (talk) 17:31, 5 July 2014 (UTC)Reply
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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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