Talk:Mandrill/Archive 1
Latest comment: 1 year ago by A455bcd9 in topic Verdict
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| Archive 1 |
Popular Culture
Should a segment mentioning the Mandrill in Popular Culture be added? One example that comes to mind is Rafiki from the Lion King —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MelicansMatkin (talk • contribs) .
Also mandrills are mentioned in the drugs episode of Brasseye as carriers of drugs for dealers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.220.22 (talk) 17:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe a separate section on mandrills in popular culture is warranted, but a reference to The Lion King in the introduction to the article seemed (to me) totally inappropriate. Danny oldsen (talk) 03:24, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Terrestrial - it doesn't live in water
The Mandrill is of course a terrestrial mammal, the sentence about its feeding habits needs to be altered to say something like "ground-dwelling" instead of "terrestrial". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.26.201.121 (talk • contribs) .
- Terrestrial means ground-dwelling, in this context, as opposed to aquatic. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- No, obviously it doesn't mean 'as opposed to aquatic' it means as opposed to arboreal. Nobody thinks monkeys swim, the question is trees or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 00:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Recently
How recently has it been classed as separate from baboons? Aeronox 13:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Groups of up to 800 individuals?
This passage sounds extremely dubious to me. I cannot imagine a primate living in a group with 800 individuals unless it is in captivity. I'm going to remove the passage until someone either corrects it or finds a reliable source.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 12:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
- Now it says that the largest group ever recorded was 1300. According to [[1]], groups range from 345-850, which would make the original claim accurate, and the new "largest group recorded" at least plausable. A quick google searchs finds the claim of 1300 mentioned in a book here: [[2]] 99.246.109.131 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Etymology
I've removed the sentence from the lead that said that the word means "man-ape" according to the OED. I have access to the OED, and it says nothing of the sort. The etymology is in doubt, and the full story is too involved to go into in this article, this not being a dictionary. The "man" part might be a corruption of "martin", an old word for "monkey", and the "drill" part might derive from an African word for the animal, but the OED doesn't say which word in what language, so why bother? --Milkbreath (talk) 10:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Colors - Pigments
Does anyone know the physiology of the brilliant coloration of these animals? Does their skin actually produce several different pigments, or is it something like bird feathers where it's just how the light hits it? I would think monkeys just had regular melanin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 00:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
- Take a look here for at least a partial answer. In short: translucent epidermis, melanin granules in dermis, and blood vessel dilation give the red, pink, mauve and blue colours. That's the best I could find with a quick Google or two :) Kay Dekker (talk) 00:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
But I still can't know... Sky6t (talk) 04:04, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Missing information
What do mandrills eat? I'd add it myself, but I have no idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.99.49 (talk) 13:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments
The mandrill article is listed as a “B” article. The contents are limited to description, ecology and activities, social behavior and reproduction, and status and conservation. No section has any subcategories. Within social behavior and reproduction, group living is briefly described with sources followed by a more extensive overview on reproduction. There is opportunity to improve this section by expanding upon the social behavior if references are available. Additionally, there is likely a correlation to kin selection based on the breeding patterns of adult males. Overall, the article needs more information in each category with an increase in organization. The citations appear to be numerous and sufficient. The article is listed as a high priority article for editing in the primates WikiProject. A few members edit the article multiple times a month. Though there are nearly forty citations on the article, it appears from the talk section that more concrete information is needed before this article and be improved further. Katims90 (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Change of images
I have moved the previous lead image as this is only the male and gives no indication of body shape, body size, quadripedal stance, etc. I included an image of a female in the taxobox so readers gain an idea of the extent of sexual dimorphism - a very important aspect of mandrills. I moved the previous lead image (what a great photo!) to replace a "mandrill with a flower" which I felt was not particularly informative. Happy to discuss these changes.__DrChrissy (talk) 09:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
As a food source
Can someone knowledgeable please expand the material about the practice of eating mandrills as bushmeat? How it is hunted, prepared, what it tastes like, etc? Holdek (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- To add that, we do not need someone knowledgeable, we need a reliable source discussing it. Take a look around and let us know what you find! - SummerPhD (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Mandrills are the world's largest monkeys NO they are not!
"Mandrills are the world's largest extant, non ape monkeys!" That is correct.--ArnoldHimmler (talk) 05:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Well thats great, but is wiki about being correct or what most people say by slang? Do you have a ref for your claim? Do you want to fix all the other ape pages? as they use the fact not your street slang. Also all the taxonomy references as they use the fact and not the street slang.--ArnoldHimmler (talk) 04:11, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
Drill picture
Why is there a drill picture in an article about the mandrill? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NatureLover96 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
GA Review
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| Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Mandrill/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Mover of molehills (talk · contribs) 18:33, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
I look forward to getting started with this review! Mover of molehills (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
I'll break up the review by section:
Well-written
Lede
For clarity, I would change "It is among the most... posterior" to "It is one of the most colorful mammals in the world, with red and blue skin on its face and posterior." Mover of molehills (talk) 00:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)That definitely helps. Are you okay with changing "among the most colorful mammals" to "one of the most colorful mammals in the world"? The phrasing as is feels very vague to me. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:42, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:03, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The verb tenses in the clause "with males being larger... coloring" is inconsistent. I would change this to "as males have a larger body, longer canine teeth and brighter coloring." Mover of molehills (talk) 00:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)The clause "morphological...mangabeys" is almost word-for-word identical to the same content earlier on in the article. I would make it unique by saying "further evidence has shown that they are more closely related to white-eyelid mangabeys." Mover of molehills (talk) 00:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I’m not sure if the comparison to baboons is very relevant for the lede. Could you just take out “bit climb trees more often than baboons do”? Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)To eliminate redundancy in how your sentences begin, I would change “They have an omnivorous… antelope” to “Their preferred foods are fruit and seeds, but mandrills will also consume leaves, piths, mushrooms, and animals from insects to juvenile antelope” (note the removal of the comma between “animals” and “from”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Typo: change “mandrill live in large” to “mandrills live in large”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase “live solitarily outside of the breeding season” comes across as a bit awkward to me. I would say “are solitary and only reunite with the larger group during breeding season.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Lede
For clarity, I would say “The word ‘mandrill’” instead of just “‘mandrill’” at the beginning of this section. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:14, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarity, I would change the mention of “Buffon” to “the French naturalist Georges-Louis Buffon”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:14, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Change “labeled the” to “called the” for flow. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Taxonomy
Clarity and grammar: change “Two genetics… sister lineages” to “Two genetic studies in 2007 supported the idea that ‘’Mandrillus’’ and ‘’Cercocebus” are sister lineages.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)I prefer the current wording since it clarifies that they are sister lineages but separate and mandrills are not Cercocebus as some have proposed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)I understand - this was meant to be more of a sentence structure edit. Could you change the structure while keeping the words "separate sister lineages"? (In particular, it feels weird to say the studies "have supported" instead of "supported" when they occurred at a specific moment in time. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:42, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:54, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Change “a third subspecies” to “a proposed third subspecies” for clarity. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Grammar nitpick: add a comma between “subspecies” and “‘’M. s. insularis’’”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:20, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I would make everything from “The draft genome” onwards into its own paragraph about the mandrill’s genetics. If possible, it would also be worth adding something about whether this genome gave more information about the mandrill’s relationship to other monkeys. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Description
Change the section title “description” to “appearance” for clarity. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Is it necessary to descrbe the head-body length separate from the shoulder height? All the numbers make the paragraph feel really clunky. If it is necessary, I would separate this data out into a table. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:30, 12 May 2022 (UTC)It looks like you rearranged the wording, but the numbers are still the same. Do you mind taking out the info about the shoulder height or organizing it into a separate table if necessary? Mover of molehills (talk) 13:44, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Removed LittleJerry (talk) 13:50, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Flow: change “The coat of the mandrill is mainly” to “a mandrill’s coat is primarily”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Also, it would be good to change “a white or light underside, which is sparsely covered” to “sparse, light-colored hairs on its underside.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)The sentences “The lips are… whiskers” and “Behind the ears… skin” feel kind of choppy - I reccommend combining them into one. Suggestion: “The lips are surrounded by stiff white whiskers, and there are patches of white, hairless skin behind the ears.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
For flow, I would change “long hairs on the head and neck, forming a ‘crest’” to “a ‘crest’ of long hairs on the head and neck. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I would change “the face… down the middle” to “Mandrills have a red line running down the middle of their face” for sentence variation. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Clarity: change “on the sides of the line” to “on either side of the line”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The semicolon after “Females have more subdued facial coloring” should be a comma. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)To be concise, change both “the rump and areas around the genitals” and “genital and anal areas” later to “the anogenital region.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Trying to limit the jargon. LittleJerry (talk) 13:44, 12 May 2022 (UTC)That's fair. It's not a big deal. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:48, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I think “multi-colored, being” sounds better as “multi-colored, consisting of”. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)For conciseness, I would change “Mandrills are noted… standards” to “Mandrills are noted for having some of the brightest coloration of any mammals.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:48, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarity, I would change “created by blood vessels” to “created by blood vessels near the surface of the skin.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Similarly, “form of structural coloration…fibers” comes across as a run-on. I would simplify it as “a form of structural coloration caused by parallel arrangements of collagen fibers.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Is it necessary to include the sentence “These can number…face”? It’s not clear what the data point is actually referencing, and the information itself doesn’t seem strictly relevant. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Removed LittleJerry (talk) 13:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I would change “green foliage backgrounds, which increases the display” to “green foliage of their environment, which helps them to stand out to females.” Mover of molehills (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Done LittleJerry (talk) 13:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)That's helpful. I still find the phrase "increase their display" kind of confusing, though. Could you say something like "help them stand out to other individuals"? Mover of molehills (talk) 14:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Ecology
To start with, I think that the first part of this section needs some restructuring. Specifically, I would advise putting the first paragraph of this section ("The mandrill lives... cultivated fields") under a new subsection called "Habitat." Then, the second paragraph of this section feels like it belongs in the "feeding" section, so I would move it there (perhaps right after the first paragraph). Mover of molehills (talk) 12:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC)That doesn't work. The paragraph is about Distribution, habitat, microhabitats and species interactions mixed in two paragraphs. It does fit in one topic. LittleJerry (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2022 (UTC):Okay - looking more closely at the rest of the paragraph, I see your point. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Nitpick: in the first sentence here, I would change "encompassing" to "including." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Change "it does not appear to overlap" with "it does not appear to share habitat" for clarity. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Another flow nitpick: "the two species being separated" would sound better as "as the two species are separated." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
The clause "mainly primary...secondary forests" is a little bit wordy right now. Could you just say "generally preferring primary forests over secondary forests"? Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)I think "it mainly consumes plants" sounds better as "The core of its diet consists of plants". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)There shouldn;'t be parentheses around "1.4%". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)The phrase "Fruits taken" is confusing, I would say "The mandrill's preferred fruits." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)More passive voice: change "Consumption of seeds is higher in mandrills" to "Mandrills consume more seeds." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)At the end of the sentence "Adults male mandrills...microcarpum seeds", it would be good to add a note about the importance of this ability to Detarium microcarpum's survival (if this is true). Mover of molehills (talk) 13:24, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
@LittleJerry: Just a ping to let you know this comment is still active. Mover of molehills (talk) 19:19, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
There's nothing on it. LittleJerry (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Okay, fair enough. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:33, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "leaves, shoots and piths of monocot plants" is confusing - are all of these specifically from monocot plants? If you only mean the piths, I would say "leaves, shoots, and the piths of monocot plants." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:43, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Passive voice: "Mushrooms are also eaten" should be "They are also known to consume mushrooms" or something like it. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Passive voice: "Invertebrates...consumed" should be "The rest of a mandrill's diet is largely made up of invertebrates". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Similarly, "other animal matter eaten" should be "they also eat". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)The verb choice "taking" in "mandrills have been recorded taking" is somewhat vague. I would say "Mandrills have even been known to hunt" instead. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Typo: "pulling the hind legs" should presumably be "pulling off the hind legs". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Nitpick: "Mandrills...feces of leopards" needs context. I would add ", suggesting that leopards occasionally prey on them." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)"Leopards are threats" sound better as "Leopards are a threat". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Similarly, it would be good to change "while eagles are only threats to infants and juveniles" to "while most other predators only target infants and juveniles" (this helps because it broadens the scope beyond just eagles). Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)The cite only mentions leopards and eagles. Dixon even states that pythons are large enough to kill mandrills (not mentioning age) and I think groups of chimps can kill an adult. LittleJerry (talk) 14:58, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Good to know, thank you! Mover of molehills (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure if the sentence "Adult male mandrills... even for leopards" needs to be included. It feels redundant with the previous sentence. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Removed LittleJerry (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
The last sentence of the "Predators, parasites and pathogens" paragraph is worded kind of strangely. I would say "Wild mandrills have tested positive for SIV, enteroviruses of the species EV-J and astroviruses, including a human variant" (note the added WikiLink on SIV). Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Done. SIV is linked above. LittleJerry (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Behavior and life history
To start with, I think the title of this section should be changed to just "Behavior" - I think that encompasses childrearing practices as well. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)It also includes development which doesn't really fit under Behavior. LittleJerry (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Okay, I just think "life history" sounds strange. Could you call it "Behavior and reproduction" or any other synonym? Mover of molehills (talk) 20:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)There's already a "reproduction and development" subsection. Life history is a term used in biology. LittleJerry (talk) 23:25, 13 May 2022 (UTC)That's fine then, thank you! Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
The three sentence about different mandrill lifespans should probably be confined into one. I would suggest "In the wild, mandrills appear to live 12-14 years, but captive individuals can live 30-40 years and semi-captive females have been recorded living to their early 20s" (I took out the part about male mandrills because it doesn't seem relevant to the facts presented in the rest of the sentence). Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
The first sentence of the "Social structure" section is completely redundant with the lede. I would change "which number in the hundreds" to "which can contain hundreds of different individuals." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)I'm not sure what the sentence "They spend less than half their time in 10 percent of their total range" is trying to say, or why it's even relevant. I would rephrase or just delete it. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Removed LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarity, I would change "Females in a group belong to matrilineal families...cohesion" to "Mandrill family groups are matrilineal, and females are important for maintaining social cohesion." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Wording: "higher survival of offspring and a higher lifespan" should be "higher survival rate of offspring and a longer lifespan." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)More wording: "lower ranking males are more on the periphery" should be "lower ranking males are more often found on the periphery." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)I would also change "live a seemingly solitary life" to "are believed to lead a solitary life". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)I would change "though males mark more than females with dominant males marking most of all" to "though males (and especially dominant males) mark more than females." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)I would change "captive alpha males mark" to "causing captive alpha males to mark". Mover of molehills (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
I find the phrase "the reverse happens...gain dominance" a little bit poorly worded. Could you just say "many of these physiological changes are reversed"? Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
The sentence about how the blue color of their skin changes over time doesn't feel entirely relevant here - even though it loosely connects to aging, it's not really about reproduction and development. I would consider moving it or just deleting it entirely. Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Nitpick: "the intense competition that exists" sounds better as "the intense competition that takes place." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Typo: "sire most the offspring" should be "sire most of the offspring." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:04, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
In addition, the phrasing of the whole sentence "While dominant males...access to the females" feels a bit confusing. Could you say "Dominant males tend to sire most of the offspring, but they are sometimes unable to monopolize access to the females when many females reach estrus at the same time." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:04, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarity, change "gestation in the species" to "gestation in mandrills." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
For clarity, change "This is performed by" to "These gestures are usually performed by". Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
"Pass on new gestures culturally" is a little bit vague. Could you say "pass on new gestures from outside influences"? Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Also, the comma after this phrase should be a colon or semicolon. Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
The repeated phrase "all ages and sex classes" reads a bit awkwardly. Could you change the first usage to "all individuals" and the second one to "Mandrills may also"? Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
I think "growls are made as mild alarms" would sound better as "growls are used to express mild alarm." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Conservation
To start with, could this section title be "Threats and conservation"? Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Typo: "IUCN Red List list" should be "IUCN Red List lists". Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
"Decreased over 30 percent over the previous 24 years" would work better as "Decreased by more than 30 percent over the last 24 years." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:16, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "Gabon is considered to be the stronghold" is completely redundant with the lede. Could you say "Gabon is seen as the most important remaining refuge for the species" instead? Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:16, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
For conciseness, I think you could change "and long-term conservation...rainforests" to "and the country's low population density and vast rainforests make it a promising candidate for mandrill conservation." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
I think "Mandrills can be found...range country" sounds better as "There is at least one protected area for mandrills within each of the countries they inhabit." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
One more thing: I think that the references and "General references" subsection may be misformated. I think that this subsection should either be called "Works cited" or be moved to a separate section (not subsection) called "Further reading." Mover of molehills (talk) 19:32, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Those are all my comments for this section! I'm leaving it open in case we need to add any more content under the "Broad" section which then has to be edited, but the prose quality looks really good right now. Mover of molehills (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)- Great, this section is now a pass. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Broad
The article feels broad enough to pass this category, at least for GA status. In the future, I would recommend potentially adding a bit more information about mandrill evolution before you submit it to GA. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Verifiable
Important: the article repeatedly mentions that a group of mandrills is called a "horde," but all the sources I see call it a "troop."[1][2] Could you fix this? Mover of molehills (talk) 19:37, 14 May 2022 (UTC)My sources are more authoritative. I'm not interested in what websites have to say. LittleJerry (talk) 19:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Okay, I see your point. Still, National Geographic feels like it should be a pretty reliable source too - could you at least say "troops or hordes" in the opening? Mover of molehills (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2022 (UTC)I don't see the need. Hordes is a term more unique to mandrills, "troop" is more generic for primates. LittleJerry (talk) 20:40, 14 May 2022 (UTC)All right, I don't feel the need to push this point too much. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:21, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
If the mandrill and drill split 3.2 million years ago, why does the article list its "temporal range" as 1.2 mya-present? Mover of molehills (talk) 13:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)That refers to the last common ancestor. That doesn't mean the modern species arose then. Humans and chimps split around 7 mya, but humans came way later. LittleJerry (talk) 15:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)Okay, good to know. Mover of molehills (talk) 18:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
The first sentence of the "Appearance" section feels just a tiny bit too close to the source. Could you say "The mandrill has a heavyset body with a large head and muzzle, as well as a short and stumpy tail"? Mover of molehills (talk) 14:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
The citation given to support the line "the mandrill is the most sexually dimorphic primate species" doesn't seem to supported that - instead, it says that it is one of the most sexually dimorphic of all land animals. Could you rephrase this line or find a new source? Mover of molehills (talk) 14:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)The exact wording is "Mandrills are the most dimorphic of all primate species: males reach about 31 kg, or are about 3.4 times the size of females". LittleJerry (talk) 15:18, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Got it, thanks. Mover of molehills (talk) 18:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't see evidence for the phrase "The red coloration is created by blood vessels near the surface of the skin" in the given source. Mover of molehills (talk) 14:36, 15 May 2022 (UTC)It says "during our studies, only the red, vascular areas of sexual skin...." and contrasts it with blue skin which "....is controlled by a separate mechanism in male primates and is not dependent upon vascular supply or circulating testosterone." LittleJerry (talk) 15:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Thank you - I missed that line. Mover of molehills (talk) 18:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "due to the presence of melanin" could use a slightly better paraphrase - could you say "is caused by melanin" instead? Mover of molehills (talk) 14:36, 15 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "feed at any level, including the canopy" is too close to the source. I would say "but in order to obtain food they will sometimes climb as high as the canopy." Mover of molehills (talk) 20:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:24, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't see support for the claim "Adult male mandrills...Detarium microcarpum seeds." In particular, the source says that adult gorillas are also able to bite through the shell. I would revise this or just take the sentence out. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:57, 16 May 2022 (UTC)The article states that "Adult male mandrills are one of the few primates capable of biting through the hard shell of Detarium microcarpum seeds." and the source states "Gorillas do eat the seeds of Detarium macrocarpum and, with the exception of adult male mandrills, appear to be the only primate with the strength to bite through the hard protective shell."I don't see the problem. LittleJerry (talk) 14:06, 16 May 2022 (UTC)My bad. I just misread the article and thought it had claimed they were the only one. Mover of molehills (talk) 14:35, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
The sentence "These include the young leaves...Afromamum species" is too close to the source. I would say "In particular, mandrills consume leaves from the arrowroots Haumani librechtsiani and Trachyphrynium braunianum, as well as the piths of ginger plants like Renealmia macrocolia and species in the genus Afromamum." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "contain gastrointestinal nematode worms and protazoa" is too close to the source. I would say "Mandrills can become infected with gastrointestinal parasites, such as nematodes and protazoa." Mover of molehills (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
The line "They sleep in trees at a different site each night" feels like a little bit of a stretch, because the article cited only describes one specific group of mandrills doing it. I would make it a little bit more qualified, such as "They often pick a new tree to sleep in every night." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:11, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
I think the line "semi-captive females have been observed living to their early twenties" might actually describe males - it said that the longest-live female reached 37. Mover of molehills (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)The line in the source is "At the CIRMF, where the animals enjoy a comparatively sheltered existence, females typically live until they reach their early twenties." LittleJerry (talk) 14:14, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Got it. I was confused because the phrase "have been observed" makes it sound like a record. I would say "Females are often observed" to be more clear. Mover of molehills (talk) 21:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:45, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
The sentence "The prominent coloration and large sides... non-existent" is too close to the source. I would say "As a result, the coloration of the male mandrill may be intended to attract attention in a social structure with no long-term relationships between mates." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
The sentence "prefer to pick...eye contact" could also use a better rephrase. I would say "prefer to pick at other mandrills from behind, in order to minimize eye contact and give them more time to flee..." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:20, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
The sentence "males are unable to sire offspring until their canines are at least 30 mm (1.2 in)" appears to be wrong. In particular, the source says that "Males with predicted canine sizes less than 30 mm sired the remaining infants." Mover of molehills (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:20, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
What makes you assume that the male's roar is "one-syllable"? The text describes it as similar to the "wahoo" bark of baboon, which seems to imply two-syllable to me. Mover of molehills (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)The source says its "emitted in one unit". LittleJerry (talk) 10:53, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
The phrase "which last 1.8 seconds" is not supported by the source - the source says they are more than this long. I would rephrase or just delete the clause. Mover of molehills (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)It says that it "persists for 1.8 seconds or longer". LittleJerry (talk) 10:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Could you point me towards the source for the line "There is at least one protected area for mandrills within each of the countries they inhabit"? The cited reference only mentions that they have one protected area in total, as far as I can tell. Mover of molehills (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Conservation Actions: "There are many parks and reserves in the Mandrill's range, and their presence has been confirmed in at least one protected area in each range state and in most of the protected areas in their geographic range." LittleJerry (talk) 10:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
That's the last of my comments! Once you have resolved these, the article will be ready for promotion. Mover of molehills (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Great! I'm ready to pass the article on this point. Mover of molehills (talk) 12:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Neutral
Automatic pass, since this isn't something we really need to worry about for an article like this. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Stable
Automatic pass, from looking at the revision history. Mover of molehills (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Illustrated
This section looks great, the article has a very nice range of pictures! Mover of molehills (talk) 19:38, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Verdict
Promoted. Great work on this article! I think that the editing has helped a lot, and it is now a very solid GA. In the future, I recommend that you think about expanding the sections on evolutionary history if you can, and then send it straight to FAC! Mover of molehills (talk) 12:35, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Great article: congrats! For FAC it would be good to update the range map (File:Mandrill area.png) in accordance with The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2019 (our map follows the 2008 edition). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:32, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
- ^ "Mandrill | New England Primate Conservancy". 2021-11-16. Retrieved 2022-05-14.
- ^ "Mandrill | National Geographic". Animals. 2010-11-11. Retrieved 2022-05-14.