Talk:Maria massacre

Clean Up

There is little information (apart from the infobox) about the ship - most of the content concerns the matter of the massacre of the passengers & crew who survived the wrecking. A separate section is needed to describe the ship & its origins. Useful sources may include newspapers of the era (via the Trove website), the Maria entry in the Australian National Shipwreck Database; also the ABC article re Marie Creek could be cited. Also the section entitled 'History' should be renamed 'The wrecking' (or similar) to more accurately reflect the nature of the content. I will make an attempt to do some work on this article at a later time.Cowdy001 (talk) 00:10, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Scope

This article is really about the massacre, not the ship. While the ship might meet the notability threshold for a ship, and therefore justify an article of its own, this article should be titled for the massacre. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the redirect is actually the topic here - but apart from working on some ships a couple of years ago, don't have a lot of experience with things maritime, so wasn't sure what to do about this ship if we make the title about the massacre. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:33, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I would split the ship bits out into a new article (as the history of this article is mostly about the massacre), and make this about the massacre only (with a hatnote to the ship). Thoughts? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The split sounds reasonable, but wouldn't this one be called Maria massacre and the ship one retain the current name? Probably no need for hatnotes if there are links within the lead of each article to the other? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, you are probably right. This page should become the massacre article and a new page created with the current name. The ship article be fairly bare bones, but it will resolve the weird scope issue. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:23, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm doubtful about a split, but let's see what happens with the RM below first. - Davidships (talk) 16:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 14 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move and re-scope the article to be primarily focused on the massacre, with coverage of the ship and wreck within that scope.

Note that this means there is not a consensus to split the article. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 18:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

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Maria (1823 ship) → Maria massacre – Ahead of article split, per discussion above, to keep history and redirects related to this article, as most incoming redirects are about the massacre, not the ship. At the moment, "Maria massacre" is a redirect to "Maria (1823 ship)". Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support per the thread immediately above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed. It is not clear whether whether there is an intention to split it into separate articles. If so, then this article should remain the ship, and "Maria massacre" should be a new article. The list of incoming links show that those that those that connect to the massacre already go to "Maria massacre". Whereas those going directly here are mostly from ship-related articles. It seems simpler to just transfer the massacre section from this to the "Maria massacre" redirect page. There's a whole bunch of other links to the Maria (brigantine) redirect page which seem more mixed, and need to be sorted individualy. Walrasiad (talk) 13:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Ships has been notified of this discussion. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 13:23, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Australia has been notified of this discussion. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 13:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Shipwrecks has been notified of this discussion. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 13:24, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support This article has always been essentially about the massacre, to which the wreck and the ship itself are an important part of the background, not central, and probably not notable enough under WP:GNG to qualify for a stand-alone article. (Incidentally, the vast majority of large number of inward links are, in reality, just two - the multitudinous iterations of the Aboriginal South Australians and 1840 shipwrecks templates.) - Davidships (talk) 16:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. The massacre is far more significant than the ship itself. No split necessary. Keep a single article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Support per above. SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.