Talk:Lucas Rijneveld
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lucas Rijneveld article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
 | The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
| This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more non-binary people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Many, but not all, non-binary people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBTQ+ WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
 | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Use of singular they
editThe article says "Rijneveld uses they/them personal pronouns", but this presumably refers only to English. How does this work in Rijneveld's native language, Dutch? Beorhtwulf (talk) 15:09, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- You are correct. See the Dutch version of this page: "Rijneveld prefers in English to be indicated by the gender-neutral personal pronoun 'they'.
- The author regrets that there is not yet a pronoun for non-binary people in Dutch. Because there is no better word, she chooses to be referred to in Dutch as 'she'." --Ekaterina Colclough (talk) 14:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
He, him, his
editUser:Redtree21 recently went to some lengths to change the pronouns referring to Rijneveld in the article from they, etc., to he, etc. Redtree21's reference may not be strictly reliable, but it appears plausible. What appears to be the poet's own Web site at mariekelucasrijneveld.com also uses he, etc. I have undone a subsequent unsourced reversal of one instance by User:2001:610:a18:1ab:ffff:3ec8:8bde:196b, but a better reference (either way) would help. Can anyone provide one, please? --Frans Fowler (talk) 20:53, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
- PS: There seems to be something appropriate on the Parool site in Dutch (https://www.parool.nl/kunst-media/marieke-lucas-rijneveld-is-nu-hij-op-medisch-vlak-kan-alles-maar-de-vraag-is-of-ik-daar-gelukkiger-van-word~bc991690/?utm_source=link&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=shared%20content&utm_content=free), but it is behind a paywall and I can only see the headline. Frans Fowler (talk) 21:20, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
@Frans Fowler: Thanks for mentioning me. When I changed the pronouns, Rijneveld had only recently announced the change, so the Instagram page was really all I had to go off. Looking into it now, I have found the following English-language page on the Paudal news website which might be of use - https://www.paudal.com/2022/01/07/writer-marieke-lucas-rijneveld-changes-pronouns-into-he-and-him/ As you pointed out, what looks like Rijneveld’s official website also mentions the pronouns. Hope that helps! Redtree21 (talk) 06:30, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- The Dutch Wikipedia article contains three references to the assertion that Rijneveld now prefers to use he/him in both English and Dutch:
- "Later, in januari 2022, liet Rijneveld weten de voornaamwoorden 'he' en 'him' te verkiezen en 'hij' en 'hem'.[1][2][3]" --Ekaterina Colclough (talk)
Placement of previous name used in publication (Marieke Lucas Rijneveld)
editHello, I have noticed that the article title has been updated to reflect the current name of the subject but the previous name he published under (Marieke Lucas Rijneveld) is not mentioned until quite a long way into the body paragraphs. I was wondering if it could be a good idea to put this former publication name in the lead sentence of the introduction to make it clear for people who know the subject under this name, but don't want to encounter any issues with deadnaming or anything else. In terms of policies and guidelines, I think MOS:DEADNAME might be relevant here, which suggests that a subject's former name should be included in the lead sentence if the subject was notable under that name, which Rijneveld was. What are your thoughts? Thank you, Redtree21 (talk) 09:12, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, and thanks. I am the one who re-introduced Rijneveld's earlier names in the body. They had disappeared from the article altogether. I was not aware of MOS:DEADNAME. Unless there is a particular reason not to, I should think it helpful to begin the lead paragraph: "Lucas Rijneveld (formerly Marieke Lucas Rijneveld; born 20 April 1991 in ...", avoiding the formulations "notable under birth name ..." and "notable under former professional name ...", neither of which quite applies in Rijneveld's case. Frans Fowler (talk) 09:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- I have now made this change, and returned the article title to being Lucas Rijneveld after it was changed back to Marieke Lucas. Redtree21 (talk) 08:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ Marieke Lucas Rijneveld is nu hij. ‘Op medisch vlak kan alles, maar de vraag is of ik daar gelukkiger van word’ Parool, 22 januari 2022
- ^ "Schrijver Marieke Lucas Rijneveld wijzigt voornaamwoorden in 'hij' en 'hem'". NU. 2022-01-07. Retrieved 2022-01-08.
- ^ "Marieke Lucas Rijneveld". Archived from the original on 22 december 2021. Retrieved 2022-01-04.
Marieke Lucas Rijneveld (He/him, born in Nieuwendijk in 1991)
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|archive-date=(help); Invalid|url-status=nee(help)