Talk:Matt Messias

Untitled

I have followed all known conventions in submitting this article. I do not own the article of course, but I would be appreciative if you would notify me here or here, explaining rationale if you carry out extensive modification, or indeed if you nominate it for deletion. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Bowdlerism

Please note that there is a Bowdlerism contained within one of the quotes used in the article. This is part of the newspaper article sourced, not the Wikipedia article, and there is no indication as to what the word should actually be. Guesswork will not suffice, so the Bowdlerism remains. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

WPBiography assessment

I've given this article a B rating, since it covers most aspects of the topic and does so without any serious problems. A few things that could be improved:

• The lead section ought to make it clear why this person is more notable than any other referee. I'd suggest mentioning the Wolves v. Millwall controversy and his religious views.
• It would be nice to know more about the subject's early life, and his life outside his career in general (in addition to the brief "Religion" section). Obviously, this is only possible if reliable sources exist for those areas.
• The "Career" section is very timeline-like, with too many short paragraphs to be easily readable. Combining into fewer paragraphs would help a lot, and you could also omit details of minor relevance – especially the match scores, which don't seem to add anything to the reader's understanding of Mr. Messias's career.
• The sentence beginning, "By coincidence, Messias is Portuguese..." seems to be original research, and unless his name is verifiably Portugese, it's potentially misleading.
• The references should probably note authors' names where possible (e.g., for newspaper articles). Citation templates aren't necessary, but can help with consistent formatting.

Overall, good work, and the article could be nominated for good article status after a little more editing. EALacey 18:57, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your overall input. I would like to expand on some of your points.

→It has proven impossible to find out too much more about his personal life, as is unfortunately the case with many in this area of sports officialdom. When or if he is the subject of a published biography or autobiography, I am sure more information will become available. →As to his being "more notable" than another referee, that is surely not the correct criteria. Notability being established due to his having officiated in the Football League or above, as required in football referee biographies, the article exists on that level alone, and not in competition with any other. The fact that he received so many appointments from UEFA whilst being shunned by Premier League grandees is itself quite remarkable, but is too wordy to be included in an article lead-in. →Article authors' names are generally available at the top of the quoted online newspaper page by following the reference hyperlinks. →Finally, the comparison regarding his surname and its Portuguese translation is meant to highlight the religious tone of his contact with Linvoy Primus. It is not meant as an unconnected piece of original research, but as an example of the parallel meanings which can be applied while still being relevant to the subject. However, if any editor has misgivings over this, they can remove it without risk of reversion (by me at least).

I have no problem with the other points raised, and no doubt other editors will tweak the article in the fullness of time. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I see that my "more notable" remark was misleading; I didn't mean the article should show that his total notability exceeds anyone else's, merely that we should note things that contribute to his notability and apply to him uniquely, such as particularly important matches he's refereed or controversies he's been involved in (although I understand not wanting to give controversies disproportionate weight). I think the "Career" section reads much better after your editing, but I accept structure is often a matter of personal preference. EALacey 09:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Notability

After reading the intro paragraph, I have no idea why this guy is notable. What has he done, other than be a referee, PE teacher, and self-employed consultant? What's the event that got him into Wikipedia? That needs to be in the intro paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philip Taron (talk • contribs) 15:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Er...he has been a referee. Or were you not aware that WikiProject Football has set standards of notability for football (soccer) officials? If you disagree with his notability, you are free to take Matt Messias to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. I would not hold out too much hope of you getting it deleted though. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 01:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm an inclusionist. Sum total of the world's knowledge and all that. It's just--give a hook to keep reading. That some person has been a referee is not, in and of itself, interesting. Tell me something about him--the cocktail party story that sums up the life! (I'd do it myself, but I know nothing about football soccer.) Philip ^(Respond?) 06:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's an encyclopedia, not a periodical magazine. Articles don't score points off each other by the length of time each reader spends reading them. If people are interested in football referees in general, they will probably scan the whole page as a matter of course. I appreciate your view, but to be honest it's not the highest priority for an article writer, I would say. Thanks for your interest anyway. Best wishes. Ref ^(chew)(do) 11:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

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