Talk:MacCarthy of Muskerry

English or Gaelic article titles

This is the English language wiki, not the Gaelic language wiki. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:34, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• I am not writing an article as Gaeilge, I am putting up the correct form of those names, AND still referencing the anglicised form, while leaving the article concerned in English, on the English language wikipedia. Fergananim (talk) 11:28, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

An article about a Chinese emperor would use the equivalent name in Latin letters in an anglicised form. It would not use Chinese characters or the "correct" Chinese transliteration. Your changes are not so much corrections as Gaelic-purity-pushing. That's why we have an article called Brian Boru, not his "correct" name. And Brian's dynasty was much more important than the McCarthy's dynasty. So stop the "correcting" crusade please on this an numerous other articles. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:10, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Agree. Fergananim has not edited for some years, but any other article name changes they made should be reviewed and probably reversed as this one has been. The correct article title is the one commonly used in English.

BurgeoningContracting, will you be looking at this? Let me know if I can help. (In all my spare time... <laughs> but I guess we're all like that... </laughs>)

Laurel Lodged is still active I see and may also be interested and able to identify other necessary reversals. Andrewa (talk) 17:56, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Category:Gaelic nobility of Ireland is a good starting point. Laurel Lodged (talk) 18:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

I see the user performed approximately 500 page and category moves. Quite a lot of the titles were reverted to the English version, but so far, I have found some Irish people with Irish names and anglicized equivalents that were changed to the "correct" version I am quite unsure if those should be changed and if/how WP:NCUE applies. Examples: William Curtain, Maelbrighte Ó Hussey, Rory O'Connor (Irish King). BurgeoningContracting 02:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion the article formerly at Maelbrighte Ó Hussey should be moved back there from where it ended up at Giolla Brighde Ó hEódhasa after a later move. Frankly I see that as a no-brainer. The article itself says that Maelbrighte Ó Hussey is the common name in English. Does that help?

In fact if it were not for the later move it could be done boldly. The rationale of Fergananim moved page Maelbrighte Ó Hussey to Maol Brighde Ó hEodhusa: Correct form of his name, as he wrote it himself shows no understanding of the issue.

The redirects from Gaelic names, even multiple ones, are fine and should remain for many reasons. Perhaps we need a category and associated R from template for such redirects, or is there one and I have missed it? Andrewa (talk) 04:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe there is a template, but I can't be sure either since I am not familiar with the whole Irish surname or clan page group as a whole. The Wiki Projects relating to this page don't have anything that I see relevant in that regard either. BurgeoningContracting 02:38, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

I had in mind a more general template such as template:R from non-English name with a usage note such as This template should be applied to redirects from names from other languages that are sometimes used in English, but not as commonly as the name of the article in question.

But to my surprise that link template:R from non-English name which I just typed was not a redlink as I was expecting, but instead it led to some very interesting places!

I now see that {{R to English|ga}} is probably the perfect template for this, ga being the redirect language code for the Irish language.

Comments? Does that make sense? Andrewa (talk) 08:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Andrewa: Interesting. Nice find. Go with it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:19, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

See Talk:Giolla Brighde Ó hEódhasa#Requested move 16 March 2023. Andrewa (talk) 17:33, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

See also Talk:Fínghin mac Donncha Mac Carthaig Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:11, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Commented and !voted there, thank you. Andrewa (talk) 18:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

The whole clan is moving to a new page.

Branches of MacCarthy are moving to MacCarthy dynasty page. BurgeoningContracting (talk) 03:11, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

I will wait for any objections, but a draft is in the making. BurgeoningContracting (talk) 04:07, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Canceled this. BurgeoningContracting (talk) 16:50, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 6 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

---

McCarthy of Muskerry → MacCarthy of Muskerry – The article contains "MacCarthy" as the dynasty name. See MacCarthy dynasty. Name was originally Irish, but was changed to the very anglicized version, McCarthy, mostly found in only the United States. BurgeoningContracting (talk) 16:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

After some research, I discovered MacCarthy of Muskerry was the original name of the article. It was moved to Mac Carthaigh Múscraige by an abandoned account. It was changed to the current title by a user likely unaware of the implications of McCarthy as opposed to MacCarthy. BurgeoningContracting (talk) 16:56, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

• Closing comment: Nom is quite correct, see the history of the target as of 17:10, 13 March 2023 (UTC):

19:36, 16 May 2019‎ EmausBot talk contribs block‎ m  51 bytes −4‎  Bot: Fixing double redirect to McCarthy of Muskerry rollback: 1 editundo Tag: Redirect target changed
16:15, 16 May 2019‎ Fergananim talk contribs block‎  55 bytes +55‎  Fergananim moved page MacCarthy of Muskerry to Mac Carthaigh Múscraige: correct form of designation thank Tag: New redirect

This could perhaps even have been a technical move, but I think the RM was best. Hopefully this leads to stability. Andrewa (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.