Talk:Mercedes-Benz 300 SL

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Terminology- Please use Gullwing for the doors, Coupe for the covered version and Roadster for the convertible version.--Akrasia25 (talk) 22:08, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

List of important changes by year

--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

• The changes were too minor from year to year to be interesting for this article. I have included them in the change to the Roadster--Akrasia25 (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done

Axle

Where the GW was equipped with a double joint center pivot rear axle, the Roadster had a low pivot (87mm below the center line) single joint rear axle.--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

The GW came equipped with a center pivot swing axle, the Roadster with a low center pivot axle. Uhlenhaut wanted the new low pivot axle for the GW, but got voted down by the Board of Directors, reminding him that 3000 manufactured axle units remained at the factory, and costs were already getting very high for this car.

The rear axle is a single-pivot axle GW has a double joint swing axle with pivots in axle shaft center line Roadster has a single joint swing axle with pivot 87 mm under axle shaft center line (to avoid flip to positive camber on outer rear wheel)

• Copied now into article. Maybe too detailed??--Akrasia25 (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done

Engine placement

As a result, the footwell of the passenger declined slightly. ( I doubt this is correct, will check the source) this is right out of the reference.

Maybe, I can not tell. I am leaving this out for now. --Akrasia25 (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

cylinder head/crankcase gasket surface is tilted 20 degrees to passenger side from rectangular to cylinder axis (observed in driving direction)--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done

layout of photos

--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done

Additional famous people not included in article

--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC) add Frank Lloyd Wright, Gary Cooper, and Natalie Wood.

According to the book, Fazination SL 300SL Roadster (W198 II), Pg 53., famous owners of the Roadster included:

Tony Randell Elvis Presley Glenn Ford Toni Sailer

Additionally, Sam Posey, Hugh Hefner

Hugh Hefner was quoted in an an article to the L.A Times (cited in the September 28 issue of the Baltimore Sun):

"Through a lifetime, you reinvent who you are," he explained in 2009. "I actually reinvented myself the first time when I was 16, when a girl rejected me. I started referring to myself as Hef, started changing my wardrobe — the same thing I did in 1959-1960 with the magazine, when I came out from behind the desk and started living the life and got the first Playboy mansion, started to drive a Mercedes 300SL.”--Akrasia25 (talk) 20:14, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

• add the great Chaparral race car engineer, aero innovator, driver, and constructor Jim Hall--bought his 1954 Gullwing on January 1, 1957 from George Tilp. Tilp was in charge of the Mercedes factory team and with driver Paul O'Shea, won the SCCA National D Production Championship in 1956, 1957, and 1958. This dominance put Mercedes engineering and quality automobiles "on the map" for the U.S. market.

• Don Recardo--Akrasia25 (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Completed Actions

Famous names added or reviewed

as recorded in Eric Le Moine 300 SL book regarding exclusively GW:

• Bruno Sacco, the famous designer, who owned 45.00001
• Juan Perón, the former President of Argentina, who owned 45.00005
• Aga Khan, who owned 45.00008
• Prince Aly Khan, who owned 45.00062
• Paul Newman, who,owned 45.00071
• Bernie Ecclestone, who owned both 45.00124 and 55.00677
• Princess Soraya of Iran, who owned 55.00111
• Juan Manuel Fangio, who owned 55.00190
• Clark Gable, who owned 55.00323
• Royal Thaïland family, who owned 55.00344
• Herbert von Karajan, who owned 55.00378
• The King Mohamed Idris of Lybia, who owned 55.00382
• Ralph Lauren, who owns 55.00386
• Alfred Krupp, who owned 55.00443
• The King Ibn Talal Hussein of Jordania, who owned both 55.00596 and 65.00110
• Adrian Conan Doyle, who owned 55.00717
• Tony Curtis, who owned 55.00787
• Paul O'Shea, who owned 65.00021 (to be double checked as I have a big doubt)
• Yul Brynner, who owned 65.00072
• Claude Picasso, who owned 65.00116
• Günter Sachs, married to Brigitte Bardot, who owned 65.00122
• Dupont de Nemours (who precisely?); they owned 65.00153
• Howard Hawks, who owned 65.00280
• The Gulf Oil company (who precisely?); they owned 65.00311
• Günter Thiel who raced (but did not own)

• removed due to not notable for English page Herbert von Karajan, Henri Nannen, Gunter Sachs, Tony Parravano, Greek shipping magnate: Stavros Niarchos--Akrasia25 (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Noted F1 privateer entrant Rob Walker owned one. He was driving it when overtaken by Mike Hawthorn in his 3.8 litre Jaguar shortly before the latter’s fatal crash on the A3 Guildford Bypass in 1959. Chris Nixon's book Mon Ami Mate has the details. Mr Larrington (talk) 23:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Axle

5 differential ratios available, 3:25, 3:42, 3:64, 3:89, 4:11

using SAE hp for GW and DIN hp for Roadster is confusing for the Torque --Akrasia25 (talk) 17:07, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

"$11,000, later 7,295" ???

This is at the bottom of the specs table. What does it mean? Why did the price drop dramatically? Were they hard to get in the US for the first few years, hence a higher price? --RThompson82 (talk) 02:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

fixed with references --Akrasia25 (talk) 17:07, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

photo of the car with it's gullwings open

Any chance that somebody could get a photo of the car with it's gullwings open? It would be more relevant. TimothyPilgrim 00:55, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

There is such a photo now on the page. --Akrasia25 (talk) 19:08, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism

"Because Kail Sturgess is the best in the world it was intended for customers whose preferences were reported to Hoffman by dealers he supplied in the booming, post-war American market, it was introduced at the 1954 New York Auto Show—unlike previous models introduced at either the Frankfurt or Geneva shows." This sentence is unclear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.239.177 (talk) 07:23, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Just some nonsense had been inserted [1] by a vandal. You could have removed it yourself.-- Matthead  Discuß   22:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Morons know nothing of Kail Sturgess — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:2787:3800:7C10:F273:74FC:E440 (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Curb Weight

Curb weight and dry weight numbers are massively variant in this article: 700 pounds difference. These need to be reconciled. Having driven this car, I find it highly unlikely that the 3000+ pound dry weight number could possibly be correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alkibiades231 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Good point. There is no dry weight option in the Infobox automobile template. And this article talks about two cars. The roadster is heavier than the gullwing and they changed a little bit over the years. Nevertheless, I am going to put in 3,330 in for curb weight, watch this page, and research a little more. --Akrasia25 (talk) 19:19, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Film Appearance

If you want to see one of these being rather badly treated, watch the Louis Malle film, Lift to the Scaffold where one gets shunted, and eventually left on a Paris bridge with the engine running - you wouldn't treat one of these cars like that now! There is a brief scene in which the engine is admired, and the lack of a carburettor noted. --Ndaisley (talk) 13:57, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I added this to film section--Akrasia25 (talk) 03:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Direct Injection

I'm confused ... if the injection system pumps unburnt fuel into the engine after ignition is switched off, why did anyone ever switch off the ignition rather than stall the engine to stop it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snaxalotl (talk • contribs) 10:56, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I edited the paragraph as this page is not supposed to be a how to article--Akrasia25 (talk) 13:30, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

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Translating from German page

I am moving parts over from the much better German page. Mercedes-Benz W198--Akrasia25 (talk) 20:51, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done German translation completed--Akrasia25 (talk) 11:14, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

gas tank

There was a 100-liter gas tank with an optional a 130-liter version. all GWs have 130 ltr tank, all Roadsters 100 ltr tank, no other options This info comes right from the German page…..

The gas tank for the GW was available at 130 Litres only. The Roadster, due to its low pivot swingaxle and extra trunk space got a 100 Litre tank, only.

HP

the standard camshaft for the GW delivered 215HP. The Sports cam shaft delivered 240HP, it was optional, but at no extra cost, when ordered at the factory. The Roadster was delivered with Sports cam shaft only, therefore delivering 240HP. Please note that the HP figures are SAE, the American system of calculation. The Germans use DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm) and show somewhat lower.

The oil capacity for all 300SL engines is 15 Litres, minimum capacity according to Factory is 11 Litres.

Instrument panel

"Tacho on the left and Tacho on the right". On the GW the left instrument is the revolution counter, the right one is the Speedometer.

Design

The eye brows were not for aerodynamic purposes, the front ones deflected rainwater from the upper part of the fenders, and I suppose that the designers added the rear ones for aestetics.

There were no front fender air inlets on the GW nor on the Roadster. The side vents are there to extract the engine heat and to promote better airflow through the radiator.

Fuel Injection

First direct injection Featuring an innovative diagonal aluminum head that allowed for larger intake and exhaust valves, it was canted to the right at forty-five-degrees to fit under the SL's considerably lower hoodline.

Add a timeline of production volumes by year in a table=

-maybe do it by compression ratio for the roadsters. I have to find the right reference in my many books at home--Akrasia25 (talk) 16:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

done --Akrasia25 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Irrelevant to article

C111 mention needed

There should be a link to the C111. In many places that is a better known gullwing. I've not heard of the 190/300SL as a kid, but the 10" flywheel toy Mercedes C111 with orange plastic body was sold throughout the soviet satellite states(!), almost every boy had one. 195.70.48.242 11:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Videogames and Video Footage

Could someone let me know if its OK to post information about what videogames this car is in? And perhaps a video of the car in a race from the game? Is so is embedded YouTube OK or should I upload the video to Wikipedia. Let me know on my talk page. Thanks Holygamer (talk) 21:19, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Sure -- it would be an 'in popular culture' section. And you're right, the car has been in a lot of different video games. --RThompson82 (talk) 02:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LP2-clROMs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.38.65.148 (talk) 15:24, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Neutrality

The legacy section, but also other sections as well, are written in a partial POV tone, with the writer giving what seems to be their opinion of things. One example being in the legacy section where it goes into detail about if the subsequent SL generations live up to the legacy of the original. This should be changed to a more encyclopedic tone. I've already removed some of the POV stuff in the earlier parts of the article but a decent bit remains. TKOIII (talk) 17:54, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@TKOIII: I will add citations and change that legacy bit. Thanks for going thru the article and please come back to make it better when you can. --Akrasia25 (talk) 20:02, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@Akrasia25: Article looks good now so I removed the tag. I see you've done a lot of work on this page, it looks great.

Items to fact check, add and cite if possible

1. - HISTORY - the first 300 SL shipped to the US was in August, 1954, not March, 1955. Done
2. FRAME AND CHASSIS - the Coupe's rear axle was of a two joint design with one joint at each side of the differential at its center line.  Done
3. INTERIOR - standard trim was vinyl with three, not four, plaid fabric choices. There was never a red/green plaid; leather trim and seats were an extra cost option. Done
4. CHANGES TO ROADSTER - the Coupe had a double joint rear axle with one joint on each side of the differential at it center line; the Roadster had a single joint arrangement with its pivot point located 87 mm below the differential center line. Done--Akrasia25 (talk) 11:38, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Above added to article with references--Akrasia25 (talk) 14:20, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Aluminium body

In the history paragraph it states "It could also be ordered with an 80 kg (176 lb) saving all-aluminium outer skin at tremendous added cost", but in the Bodywork paragraph it says "On request and for a relatively small extra charge, the entire body was made of light metal, making the vehicle 80 kg (176 lb) lighter". Which is correct? Yevad (talk) 16:38, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Good catch. I have checked two of my books at home here and have some info but nothing on the price. I will take that qualifier out for now and keep looking for it. Thank you --Akrasia25 (talk) 18:18, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Assessment (July 2019)

I've assessed this article at B-class as is. Thanks to a lot of work done by Akrasia25 and others, it covers the car in sufficient detail and scope, and is well referenced through most of the article. I would say its main obstacle to GA or higher status is primarily organization right now. Compared to an article like the Maserati MC12, the sections that this page has been divided into seem overly specific and/or out of order. For example, I think the first section (Previous version (W 194) in Racing) should instead be a sub-heading under History. Why are there two sections for Technical Description and Technical Data? Most of the data in the table is already listed in the article and infobox. The Super-Leicht or Sport-Leicht section probably should be merged with the history section as well, or perhaps shortened and integrated into the article lead (its prose needs to be cleaned up regardless). Keep up the good work, this is a nice article and an important one to the Auto wikiproject. Aab254 (talk) 15:04, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you Aab254 for the time to assess the article. I will get going on the advice and comments that you have made and improve the article.Thank you also for the encouragement. Nice way to put the advice.--Akrasia25 (talk) 20:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Actions

To Do

• The sections that this page has been divided into seem overly specific and/or out of order.  Done
• Most of the data in the table is already listed in the article and infobox.  Done--Akrasia25 (talk) 13:30, 1 August 2019 (UTC)--Akrasia25 (talk) 13:47, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
• The Super-Leicht or Sport-Leicht section probably should be merged with the history section as well, or perhaps shortened and integrated into lede Done
• Super-Leicht prose needs to be cleaned up. Done--Akrasia25 (talk) 13:47, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
• Move some of the specific sections into a "Reception" section. (like the production number tables) Done
• Why are there two sections for Technical Description and Technical Data?  Done
• Reorganize sections along the lines of GA article for Maserati MC12  Done

--Akrasia25 (talk) 22:08, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Distribution in NA

The distribution of the 300SL (and all MB cars in north america) was shifted from Hoffman to Studebaker because MB was unhappy with Hoffman's business practice. What section of the article would be suitable for this bit? Havlicek stole the ball (talk) 17:57, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Film section deleted

I deleted section. The choices were old/odd/dead pages/in German/slow to load. Anyone can see better on You tube or Cars in films.--Akrasia25 (talk) 20:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

‎Notable owners

I removed this list which got reverted. My rationale for removal is that famous people will always own luxury cars anyway because they can and cannot see what is the relevance of a list for famous owners, especially this. I do not see the point for it and what it does for it. SpacedFarmer (talk) 14:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

• You've just removed it for a second time, with the rationale "as raised in the talk section". But the fact that you've been talking to yourself here, rather than that anyone else supported your view (you were promptly reverted last time), means that this is still just you edit-warring to have it your way.

Obviously I would favour keeping it. This was never a common car, even by expensive luxury car standards. Nor was it even a particularly luxurious car: it's tiny and hard to get in and out of, especially in an evening dress. So the fact that Sophia Loren had one is notable. Von Braun? No real surprise there, not even Von Karajan, but the all-American Briggs Cunningham? Pablo Picasso? These are not the names we'd expect to see driving high performance German cars of this era, and so their inclusion here is informative and encyclopedic. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Racing

The first paragraph of this section mentions a V16 Ferrari. I have never heard of such a beast, and certainly not in Grand Prix racing in 1951, when the 4.5 litre Lampred-drsignedi V12 had developed to the point of giving the Alfas an occasional hard time. Mr Larrington (talk) 18:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, this was the Ferrari 375. I've fixed it. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2024 (UTC)