Talk:Mike Elliott (comedian)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 17:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Mike Elliott (entertainer) → Mike Elliott (comedian) – Fails WP:CRITERIA 1,2,3,5 when not simply known as "Mike 'The Mouth' Elliott" he is described as "a comedian" by The Economist. The string "entertainer Mike Elliott" only produces shadows from Wikipedia. Relisted. BDD (talk) 16:50, 9 September 2013 (UTC) Relist Note:Subsequent to relist UserRed Slash has correctly noted that the nomination should have mentioned the ambiguity issue with all the other entertainers at Mike Elliott (disambiguation). In ictu oculi (talk) 04:45, 11 September 2013 (UTC) In ictu oculi (talk) 05:00, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support move. A standard comment about "entertainer" being a bad disambiguator should be read here. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 15:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. The subject is notable as a comedian, actor, and radio presenter. "Entertainer" is an appropriate umbrella term in this case. Dohn joe (talk) 19:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

As before this is based on a misunderstanding of the role of parenthetical dabs and the meaning of "entertainer". Umbrella terms are used for umbrella categories. The question for WP:CRITERIA is what percentage of English sources use "entertainer" of Mike Elliott vs "comedian"? See WP:AT CRITERIA 2. Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such titles usually convey what the subject is actually called in English. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Please see read the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#WP:COMMONDAB.3F. The consensus there was that WP:AT does apply to dabs, but with less rigor, because dabs are an artificial WP construction. No one searches for "singer X" or "X (singer)". They search for "X", and we provide a helpful dab when required. Most of the time, that dab should follow WP:AT. But just like any other title decision, it's a balancing decision. If a person is well-known as both a singer and a dancer, it's okay to choose "entertainer" sometimes. Dohn joe (talk) 04:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, so given that consensus is that WP:AT does apply to all the title, what then is your argument from WP:RS sources that this article, the one called "comedian Mike Elliot" in the British Parliament, should not follow WP:AT Criteria 2. Naturalness... Such titles usually convey what the subject is actually called in English.? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:10, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Mike was a professional entertainer with a wonderful accent a mile wide and an ample belly to match." Burgess, Jr. William. In Bristol Fashion, p. 145. Dohn joe (talk) 06:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Colin Larkin The Encyclopedia of Popular Music 2006 Volume 5 - Page 616 "During the 70s, the fiddle player McConville toured with comedian Mike Elliott then teamed up with Bob Fox (guitar/vocals) to form a duo."

London Theatre Record - Volume 6, Issues 1-13 1986 - Page 91 "In complete contrast, I spent a harrowing evening with Mike Elliott at the Kings Head with an audience that didn't seem to want a good time at all. Elliott is a talented comedian, not as close to Mike Harding or Jasper Carrott as he'd like to think, ..."

etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:27, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• Support; he's most famous as something specific. You might as well call him Mike Elliott (English dude) as Mike Elliott (entertainer) or whatever. Red Slash 01:57, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Note: actually, Mike Elliott (English dude) would be better than the current title, because at least it disambiguates. Look at Mike Elliott - there's at least six other people there who would also fit as being called an "entertainer". This current title is not working. Red Slash 01:59, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

@Red Slash: that was a major omission on my part, thank you: Mike Elliott (bass guitarist), Mike Elliott (disc jockey), Mike Elliott (guitarist), Mike Elliott (saxophonist). In ictu oculi (talk) 04:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Or even Mike Elliott (film producer), Mike Elliott (rugby), and... like, I mean, I'm not familiar with Australian politics, but maybe even Mike Elliott (politician)! (I'm reaching with this.) Red Slash 22:21, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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