Talk:Manacled Mormon case

Miss Wyoming?

If Joyce McKinney was a "former Miss Wyoming", how is it that she is not listed on the Miss Wyoming page? Perhaps she was just a contestant. Giles Martin (talk) 00:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

She's also not in Miss Wyoming USA, which I initially thought might be the solution. Or she could have won a sub-competition, like "Miss Teen Wyoming" or whatever. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Beats me, too. But we tend to trust citations rather than other WP articles, so, unless there is a citation that shows that she was not a winner of a competition with a similar name, then I imagine it has to stand since it is cited in a reliable source? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes winners of beauty contests get their titles revoked - Helen Morgan was pressured into resigning in 1974, and the runner-up took over. The reason - Morgan had a child. Maybe the Miss Wyoming people objected to the nude modelling, and expunged Joyce McKinney from the records? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.43.55 (talk) 17:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

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It now says "Miss Wyoming World", but the List of United States representatives at Miss World doesn't mention state-level contests... AnonMoos (talk) 01:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Dunno. The sources (like this one) generally just say she was crowned "Miss Wyoming" without elaboration, so I think probably the article should say no more than that and perhaps not attempt to wikilink to any particular beauty pageant title. It's interesting original research trying to figure out what title it was, but I don't think it's anything the WP article needs to concern itself about too much. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I see now that there were a bunch of corrections in newspapers about this issue that ran in 2008 (some of them cited in the article). I just read some of them, and they say, "The Associated Press erroneously reported that she was Miss Wyoming USA in 1973. Joyce McKinney was Miss Wyoming World, which had no connection to the Miss Wyoming USA event." That seems to be enough for us to say it was "Miss Wyoming World". It's not the same pageant group that sends American contestants to Miss World. If a Miss Wyoming were to go to Miss World, that would be Miss Wyoming USA. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

• Update - Accdg to this WY news piece, McKinney may have never stepped foot in Wyoming. The "World" was a wannabe pageant run out of Utah, with its main event put on in NYC (for awhile).--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 10:22, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

'1973 Joy McKinney' makes it on to the references, presumably that's the source of the confusion? (Still don't know whether Joy McKinney = Joyce McKinney though) sheridan (talk) 13:13, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Substantiation? Legal follow-up? [Query]

Did the police ever corroborate Anderson's story? Were chains found in the place where he was reported to be held? If so, was his blood on the manacles? What fingerprints were found? Did the scene correspond with his description? Did either party bear bruises or abrasions, especially where chains and manacles would have bitten into the skin of a struggling person? Was Anderson traumatically sodomized? Surely the police found something or McKinney wouldn't have been charged and then out on bail. What were the charges, anyhow? How much bail did she have to pay?

"Along with Keith May, her co-conspirator..." - Was this person a co-conspirator in the reported abduction and battery of Anderson or merely the flight from justice?

"...the English court sentenced McKinney in absentia to a year in jail." - She never returned to face this conviction? Is she still considered a fugitive in England? Was there ever a civil suit?

There are a lot of gaps in this article. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 06:04, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

All we can report in the article is material that has been reported on by reliable sources. If you know of reliable sources that address these issues, discussion of them could be added. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:04, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Updated responses

1. There never was any mention sodomization. #Unless McKinneyn were to become pardoned, were she to travel to the U.K., she'd "owe" them that year imprisonment to which she was sentenced.
2. (Didn't come up with immediate Google hits w rgd whether May's charges remain unanswered for. Time article: "In Seoul, as she prepared to return home with one of her brand new Boogers [cloned pets], Bernann McKinney initially denied that she is one and the same Joyce McKinney who is still technically a fugitive from British justice." Of course, he died in aught-four.
3. As for evidence:
   - Joyce McKinney and the Case of the Manacled Mormon, chapter 3: "Detective Chief Superintendent John Bisset from the Surrey Criminal Investigation Department (CID) had found handcuffs and foot manacles" in the "remote cottage on the northern edge of dartmoor, near Okehampton" McKinney had rented for £50 a week. [Anderson said they also used leather straps, ropes, and chains.] McKinney's "car had yielded two convincing replicas of .38 Colt Detective revolvers; a bottle of ether mixed with chlorofoam"; [etc.].
   - Associated Press: "McKinney made headlines throughout the world in 1977 when she was accused of knocking Anderson out with chloroform, handcuffing him with fur-lined manacles to a bed in a remote cottage for three days and forcing him to be intimate with her."
   - Aug 11, 2008 Time magazine:

   Anderson claimed that he'd been kidnapped at gunpoint (albeit a replica), forced to have sex while chained to the bed (and twice more unchained), and that, despite being six foot four and 240 lbs. (110 kg), had never resisted. "I had made a plan for my release," Anderson testified, "but it wasn't through running away. I was going to cooperate." Even after his ordeal, when McKinney and May drove him back to London and a long lunch in Trafalgar Square, he still cooperated. [...] In July, 1979, the FBI finally caught up with the couple in Asheville, North Carolina, where they got suspended sentences for falsifying passports but were not considered liable for extradition. In 1984, McKinney surfaced again, when she was arrested outside the office of Kirk Anderson in Salt Lake City where he was living. Police found rope and handcuffs in her car." [She also had notes on Anderson’s movements.]

   (For her part, McKinney says the various assortment of seemingly-suspicious items were consesual S&M props.)
   --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 20:27, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

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Moved title

Nonconsensual "sex in chains" (for example not involving a dominatrix, etc.) is a misnomer and such human sexuality while being abused (see e.g Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse#Prisoner_rape, etc.) is better specified as sex abuse.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 00:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Hodgdon's secret garden, make your case via a WP:Requested moves discussion. Since this is a contentious topic and we go by WP:Article title matters, including WP:Common name, I will now move the article back. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:59, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Hodgdon's secret garden, again, make your case via WP:Requested moves. It explains there how to set up a discussion. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:21, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Flyer22 Reborn The talk page should be moved back too, No sense having it under the other title while the RM is active. Meters (talk) 03:34, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Meters, yeah, I know. I didn't notice that the talk page didn't move until a few minutes before you replied. The talk page usually moves with the page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:46, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, a move can be undone if there are no subsequent edits. Talk page was changed after move but before undo, so will require an admin now (my mistake, thought you were an admin). Meters (talk) 03:50, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Meters, yeah, as you can see by the move back, I requested admin help. And, yeah, I sometimes get mistaken for an admin; I don't know if it's my tone or what. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:56, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Active names get recognized... someone called me an admin just yesterday. Meters (talk) 04:05, 7 April 2018 (UTC)‎

Requested move 7 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 01:23, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

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Mormon sex in chains case → Manacled Mormon case – A case involving a conviction where human sexuality between two partners was engaged in without one of those partner's consent ought never be referred to simply as "sex." (Surely the first word in the 2005 Associated Press story "Sex used to break Muslim prisoners, book says" is a misnomer.) McKinney, its perpetrator, was convicted in absentia for her forced copulation upon her male victim, who successfully had been aroused beforehand orally; at the time, it was impossible in the U.K., legally speaking, for a woman to rape a man, so she was only convicted of perpetrating indecent assault upon him. This is not sex, absent a qualifier. The title could avoid being offensive to victims by changing sex to sex abuse: "Mormon missionary in chains sex abuse case," "Manacled Mormon missionary sex abuse case," etc.; or the hyper-correct indecent assault could be substituted for the phrase sex abuse in the foregoing. By the way, "Mormon in chains sex case" and other "in-chains" formulations have seen much-less-frequent use in citations than the more predominant "manacled Mormon" variation.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 11:27, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

• W rgd my striked-through text above, I stand corrected. See eg the Guardian and Observer style guide's entry, Sexual abuse: "unwanted sexual behaviour, or molestation. Do not use ‘sex abuse’ as the term ‘sex’ can imply consent" - link. (Find add'l style-book links in the scroll-up bar immed.ly below.)

Extended content

From the Associated Press's media resource The Definitive Source, Nov. 21, 2017, by John Daniszewski, Vice President for Standards: "be as specific as possible in describing the kinds of behavior that is being alleged or admitted[...]. In slugs and headlines, we have decided to adopt the generalized description “sexual misconduct,” rather than “sexual harassment,” because it encompasses a broader range of sexual misbehavior and does not run the risk of diminishing some of the alleged acts. - link Sensitive Style for Covering Sexual Violence," Karen Yin, June 7, 2017: "Don’t make sexual assault sound fun or erotic—it’s not consensual. Rape, not sex. Oral rape, not oral sex. Underwear, not panties. Forcibly touched, not fondled. - link "Get the language right. Rape or assault is not "sex."--- Chicago Taskforce on Violence against Girls & Young Women, Reporting on Rape and Sexual Violence "Rape is violence, not ‘sex’. Reporting on sexual assault means finding not only the language but the context and sensitivity to communicate a trauma that is at once deeply personal and yet a matter of public policy; immediate and yet freighted with centuries of stigma, silence and suppression. [...] Don't Use language that describes sexual violence as sex, e.g. “oral sex”, “sexual activity,” “kissing,” “sex that was forced,” “non-consensual sex.” --- Femifesto, Use the Right Words (Poyter Institute's course--> link) "According to a 2010 report by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, nearly 1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men in the United States have been raped. The actual number is most likely higher, experts say, as sexual violence is severely underreported in the United States as elsewhere, particularly among male victims." - Dart Center for Journalism & Trauma "Don't call it 'sex' if we're referring to rape or assault." - School Library Journal style guide "Confusing Sex and Rape", New York Times' Public Editor Arthur Brisbane, Nov. 19, 2011: [When reporting on assaults], "journalists should avoid using the language of consensual sex” "[Per the New York Times' in-house style manual don't use euphemisms - eg not "criminal attack"/"criminal assault" but "rape" w rgd forced intercourse (even tho a state's law utilizes term sexual assault) ... ]- StudentActivism.net

"all parties agree that, at one stage, the Mormon was tied to a bed while McKinney repeatedly had sex with him in an effort to become impregnated. McKinney has always maintained that the bondage was a game designed to ease Anderson's guilt about sexual enjoyment. Anderson insisted that he was effectively raped. After three days he was allowed to leave." 2011 The Independent (originally in The Observer)

"there wasn't anyone in the country who gave a toss about the alleged victim of the alleged crime: the prevailing opinion then - as it would probably be now - was that he must have enjoyed it. Curious double-standards" - Trash Fiction (U.K. - undated)

Although '...in chains' & 'Manacled Mormon are both '70s U.K. tabloid headlines, it has been but a small sprinkling of web-platform published sources that reference the former wheteas more prestigious publications almost uniformly prefer the latter (see inside collapsed box below).

Extended content

wp:Title: "article titles are based on what the subject is called in reliable sources...." "The Mormon missionary missing in Surrey turned up yesterday and said he had been kidnapped and held handcuffed and manacled for three days on the orders of a wealthy lovesick woman" - Sep 17, 1977 The Times, London "In a less-enlightened era the British papers had a sneering field day with the notion of the hulking, doughy Anderson becoming McKinney's 'sex slave.' Had the genders been reversed, the story would've soured" 2011 Chicago Tribune "the infamous 'Case of the Manacled Mormon,' which was made to order for the British tabloids" 2011 Chicago Sun-Times "superimposing giant type over his talking heads—Willing! Manacled Mormon!—often made me wonder if Morris were exposing the world of tabloid journalism or participating" 2011 Chicago Reader "the story explodes in the British press — 'The Manacled Mormon!' — sparring a war between the two biggest London tabloids, The Daily Mirror and The Daily Express." 2011 Miami Herald "For the first time yesterday Joyce McKinney talked freely about the love affair behind her astonishing sex-in-chains kidnapping case." - 1978 Daily Express tabloid "Yet the manacled Mormon scandal continued to haunt her." 2013 Daily Express tabloid "The story – known as the Mormon Sex Slave Case – captivated the British public during an otherwise quiet summer." 2011 Daily Mirror tabloid "revisits The Case of the Manacled Mormon, a lurid and fascinating tale that gripped British tabloids in 1977" 2011 The ViewLondon "a reporter for the U.K.'s Daily Express at the time of the 'Manacled Mormon' story" 2011 NPR. "Judge finds for filmmaker in 'manacled Mormon' case" 2013 The Guardian "Joyce McKinney And The Case Of The Manacled Mormon" (2009 - book by tabloid reporter ISBN-13: 978-0955823886 ) "Tabloid: The Honey Blonde and the ‘Manacled Mormon’"2011 Time magazine "the infamous 'Case of the Manacled Mormon'" Jul 2011 Salt Lake Tribune "McKinney, a one-time beauty queen who became fodder for the London longsheets in what became known as the 'manacled Mormon' affair." 2011 The Wrap "riffs on period tabloid headlines like 'The Case of the Manacled Mormon'" 2011 Slant magazine "The story, dubbed 'The Case of the Manacled Mormon,' was a tabloid sensation in Britain in 1977 and 1978." Nov 2011 Salt Lake Tribune "I still love my manacled Mormon: 'Madam Mayhem' Joyce McKinney who kidnapped missionary" 2011 Daily Mail "In 1977, McKinney was at the center of a scandal recalled in U.K. tabloid lore as the 'manacled Mormon' affair." 2011 Slate "a tabloid sensation. The Daily Express portrayed her as a loving woman wretchedly separated from her man, while other papers tagged her as a demon preying on 'the manacled Mormon.'" 2011 The New Yorker "in increasingly salacious stories with headlines like 'The Manacled Mormon' and 'Sex in Chains'" 2011 New York Times "press dubbed it "The Case of the Manacled Mormon"! As reported in the November 23, 1977, edition of the London Evening News, a magistrates' court was held rapt as "a young Mormon missionary told today how an ex-beauty queen kidnapped him and then made love to him while he was chained" - 2011 Village Voice "giving birth to the tabloid legend of the 'manacled Mormon.'" 2011 New York magazine "'The Case of the Manacled Mormon' had it all: sex, religion, a hot blonde" 2011 Assoc. Press agency "the U.K. press got hold of what was promptly dubbed 'The Case of the Manacled Mormon.'" 2011 G.Q. magazine

--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 04:05, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

• Comment: Although the 2011 Time magazine source notes that British tabloids called the incident "The Case of the Manacled Mormon" and "The Mormon Sex-in-Chains Case," and although whether I search "Mormon sex in chains case" or "Manacled Mormon case," I see the same sources pop up and many of them are poor, and although the Chicago Sun-Times source states that "accounts differ. And always will in this instance" with regard to whether the incident was consensual or sexual assault, Hodgdon's secret garden has made a convincing case for moving the article to the proposed title; I'd support the move. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 09:22, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Per WP:Alternative title, the "Mormon sex in chains case" title should remain bolded in the lead, though. We aren't going to censor the fact that this case was widely called that. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 16:26, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Recent arrest

A previous version of this article claimed that the Joyce McKinney who is the subject of this article was arrested for a hit and run incident. The source certainly concerns a white woman named Joyce Bernann McKinney, of about the same age as the subject of this article would be now, but it does not mention her infamous previous, so no reliable connection can be made. The only source I found that made the connection is clearly unreliable, stating that she'd kidnapped "her boyfriend" and held him captive for three years, rather than three days. Per WP:BLP poorly sourced statements about living persons must be removed. Hairy Dude (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Why isn’t her DOB listed

Wiki almost always has someone’s birthdate, why is this an exception?? 72.253.249.244 (talk) 08:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)