Talk:Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond

Requested move 11 October 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) —innotata 23:13, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

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Mount Richmond → Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond – New name for cone. Haminoon (talk) 05:50, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

References

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose MOS:SLASH we should avoid slashes whenever possible. WP:SUBPAGE this makes the appearance of a subpage, and messes up the associated talk pages, which will assume it is a subpage. Further, per internet wide usage, this is assumed to be a subpage in URL formulations. We can replace it with a DASH, like how other jurisdictions use an mdash. WP:OFFICIALNAMES we don't just use official names because they are official -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:23, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment Ōtāhuhu is currently in use. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment A slash is allowed "where a slash occurs in a phrase widely used outside Wikipedia, and a different construction would be inaccurate, unfamiliar, or ambiguous"; and we have a precedence with Aoraki / Mount Cook. Usually in NZ the general usage rapidly follows the official name (as we saw with Aoraki / Mount Cook). Haminoon (talk) 21:48, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified (February 2018)

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Requested Move 17 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Sceptre (talk) 09:45, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

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Mount Richmond → Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond – official name for cone since handover to Tūpuna Maunga Authority in 2014.[1][2]

Commonly used in official communications, and in NZ news media.[3][4][5] VolcanicMan (talk) 21:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: Per WP:OFFICIALNAMES. Wikipedia doesn't care about a name being official. Current name meets WP:CRITERIA. A couple of selected articles is not enough to show that the WP:COMMONNAME has changed. --Spekkios (talk) 21:55, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

In that case, how do we know the english name is the commonly used one? I note the suburb in which Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond resides is named Ōtāhuhu. VolcanicMan (talk) 11:08, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

@VolcanicMan: I think your move request is malformed - have a look at the template in WP:RM to ensure it gets picked up properly by the bot. Turnagra (talk) 04:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC) (update: I seem to have fixed the formatting) Turnagra (talk) 06:02, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support - A couple of articles may not be enough, but I've gone through all of the relevant articles on google news which come up in a search for either "Mount Richmond" or "Mt Richmond" (eg. excluding the results for Mount Richmond Special School or the suburb Ōtāhuhu, and all of the Mount Richmonds (Mounts Richmond?) around the world). Interestingly, there were far more articles for Mount Richmond Forest Park before I excluded that, which suggests that the current title may not be precise enough. Of the 26 articles, a whopping 23 use the dual name in some form, while only two exclusively use "Mount Richmond". This seems to unambiguously establish that the dual name is the WP:COMMONNAME, even before we look that pages around the mountain almost exclusively use the dual name, while results for "Mount Richmond" are typically for the mountain in Nelson and "Mount Richmond Auckland" for the Mount Richmond Hotel. For a full breakdown of the news results as I saw them:

26 - overall

17 - Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond (or Ōtāhuhu / Mt Richmond)

2 - Ōtāhuhu Mount Richmond (or Ōtāhuhu Mt Richmond)

1 - Mt Richmond / Ōtāhuhu

1 - Otahuhu-Mount Richmond

1 - Otahuhu (Mt Richmond) - from before the name change

1 - "Mt Richmond (also known as Otahuhu)" - from before the name change

1 - Ōtāhuhu, Mount Richmond

2 - Mt Richmond (a 2016 real estate listing and 2014 liquor ban changes from before the new name)

When we also consider that maps, the gazetteer, and international databases all use the dual name, then this should be fairly uncontroversial as far as moves go. Turnagra (talk) 06:02, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Dual article titles are generally discouraged. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:56, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

  Given you post this on every dual place name move without regard for the evidence of the case or the evidence presented to the contrary for dual names in a NZ context, is this actually pertinent or a case of that you WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT? Turnagra (talk) 04:51, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I took a look at the Google News results linked by Turnagra above. The methodology appears sound to me, and the results convincingly demonstrate that the dual name is the WP:COMMONNAME for the mountain. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:49, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I've verified the links from VolcanicMan and Turnagra, and have done my own search of notable sources, which confirm the official name is now also the common name. This follow the precedent of using a slash for the names of New Zealand features, such as Aoraki / Mount Cook and Whakaari / White Island, as well as other Tūpuna Maunga now known by dual names, like Maungakiekie / One Tree Hill, Maungawhau / Mount Eden and Ōwairaka / Mount Albert. There are hundreds listed here. Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond also reflects the Auckland Council's (reserve managers) and Tūpuna Maunga Authority's (administrators) multiple websites, brochures, signage and maps that the public use to access the maunga. E James Bowman (talk) 05:00, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond appears to be the common name for the mountain based on searches, and it would be a consistent approach with other New Zealand geographical dual names where the official dual name has become the common name. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support - as per WP:COMMONNAME. I have no idea why some editors here are so keen on using outdated names for this and other articles. Michael60634 (talk) 02:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Who would refer to it in speech as "Ōtāhuhu / Mount Richmond"? Nobody, that's who. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - I largely join the other opposing editors in sentiment but I'd add that these supposedly common usage examples are largely examples of official name usage by various official bodies like government websites or acts rather than organic common usage. --Killuminator (talk) 09:24, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.