Talk:PASOK – Movement for Change

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Requested move 31 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. wbm1058 (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

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Movement for Change (Greece) → PASOK – Movement for Change – There has been debate about the specific page's name. As of May 2022 this coalition has been renamed to "PASOK-KINAL", i.e. "PASOK - Movement for Change", (see: https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1183902/back-to-the-future-for-kinal-as-members-vote-to-bring-back-pasok-name/). This should therefore be reflected on this page, as it is on the corresponding Greek Wikipedia page. There have been multiple attempts by many users to update this for some days now, but for some reason some people have been reverting it for no valid reason. Hopefully this time it works. Am34114 (talk) 14:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support Also a natural disambiguation. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:06, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I suggest a better merger with PASOK as otherwise it will cause confusion and confusion for most people.--109.242.82.30 (talk) 15:20, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Why? PASOK and PASOK-KINAL remain two completely separate entities. PASOK is simply one of 8 member parties of the alliance. The decision to rename the alliance from just "KINAL" to "PASOK-KINAL" was nothing more than an issue of brand image, as PASOK is the biggest and most recognizable of the member parties, but the essence of the alliance is the same: no new entity was formed. Am34114 (talk) 10:00, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Although i do i agree with you that it is just an issue of brand image the name did change so we shouldn't put opinion in front of truth.Therfore the name should be changed. Takis S1 (talk) 20:05, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

PASOK vs PASOK – Movement for Change: Merger or Successor

I suggested a merger between this article and PASOK, as it is stated in both articles that the former, upon changing from an alliance to a political party, absorbed the original PASOK, along with fellow alliance member KIDISO (the latter of which now appears to be defunct, as their website currently shows a blank page). However, instead of engaging in discussion, whether that be to combine the two or ultimately list the original PASOK as superseded by PASOK – Movement for Change, etc, someone keeps removing the template I placed, often accompanied by a personal attack with no further detailed explanation. I would appreciate it if we could have a discussion on the matter civilly here. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 17:20, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@HapHaxion: I am not making any personal attacks against you. You should have made your merge request more clear when you suggested this merge to begin with, know you have made it more clear as to why you suggested the merge. I have noticed that they both have the same person as president, which makes it most likely that the older was problemly absorbed. I will restore your merge request. Catfurball (talk) 18:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Taking into account the recent judicial decision 8/2021 of the Supreme Civil and Criminal Court of Greece on the declaration of electoral combinations, PASOK – KINAL is not an amalgamated political party, but a coalition of parties, mentioning -alongside PASOK proper- ΚΙΔΗΣΟ, ΕΔΕΜ "and various political movements". PASOK to this day has never announced any consolidation, and George Papandreou continues to style himself as president of the Movement of Democratic Socialists (on Facebook).

Yes, ΚΙΔΗΣΟ and ΕΔΕΜ's websites have gone dormant, but minor coalition partners Renewal Left and Citizens' Movements for Social Democracy appear somewhat active.

It is also worth noting that PASOK, KINAL (and the inactive former coalition instances Democratic Coalition and Olive Tree) have different tax ID numbers - PASOK's own is notoriously indebted. According to another recent decision (Published on Goverment Gazzete Issue B/ 3086/2023), PASOK and KINAL will recieve separate amounts of regular funding and financial support for educational purposes, with KINAL recieving 377,441.25 euros cumulatively and PASOK recieving 125,813.75 euros respectively, based, among other legal provisions, on the private agreement since June 7th, 2019 of parties which compose the coalition "Movement for Change (Panhellenic Socialist Movement - Movement of Democratic Socialists - Renewal Left - Progressive Centre - EDEM - Citizens' Movements)".

Yes, both the coalition (PASOK-KINAL) and the party (PASOK) are chaired by the same person and have the same party organization and almost identical symbols, but the allotment demonstrates an existing distinction between the two. It should be noted that PASOK proper has a longer history than the coalition. Moreover, PASOK-KINAL's charter under article 1, clause 1 mentions that: "The political organization with the title "PASOK Movement for Change" is a multi-party political organization of the modern Center-Left with the participation of political parties (PASOK, Movement of Democratic Socialists, EDEM), initiatives and collectivities of the progressive space [...]". ThanmadGR (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2023 (UTC)