Talk:Movement for Democracy (Greece)

Wrong title movement

User:Greek Rebel the english speaking sources mention the party as Movement for Democracy : https://hellasjournal.com/2024/11/kasselakis-reveals-name-of-new-party-movement-for-democracy/

https://www.newsbomb.gr/en/story/1604632/kasselakis-reveals-name-of-new-party-movement-for-democracy 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I saw it. You are right. You can keep the «Movement of Democracy» as redirection, and move the content to the «Movement for Democracy». But you should know, that this translation is incorrect, and probably one site translated as «Movement for Democracy» and then all the others copied it. The meaning of «Κίνημα Δημοκρατίας» is «Movement of Democracy», while actually the accurate translation is «Democracy Movement». Greek Rebel (talk) 18:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I know that is incorrect. Let's wait for the English version of party's website. 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps you should create a redirection to Kinima Dimokratias also ? Ip's can't create titles. 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I will make both Kinima Dimokratias and Democracy Movement (Greece). Greek Rebel (talk) 21:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I am for renaming it Democracy Movement.

Movement of Democracy hardly makes any sense in English. Weatherextremes (talk) 07:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The party title is given by the sources, not by us. Which English-language source supports your chosen title? 193.92.155.183 (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:CRITERIA "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject." 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand this, but those are actually english-versions of hellenic sites, that probably one of them translated the party incorrect and then all the others copied it. I think we should call it by its normal translation (Democracy Movement) until the party itself provide the english version somehow. Greek Rebel (talk) 21:40, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Τhe English-speaking sources have shown the way on how to write the party title. 188.4.247.216 (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

5/300

@CubicStar BILL1 (talk) 05:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Quinnnnnby these Mps are still considered to be independent. See also the website of the Hellenic Parliament. If you want it to be written that 5 independent MPs support the party write it down. In the infobox it just confuses the reader. 193.92.155.183 (talk) 17:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

If we wait a few days there will be a new parliamentary group, according to the newspapers, and we can bring it in. 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Spartans and Course of Freedom show their MPs despite having fewer than 10, it is more confusing to leave Kasselakis's party out. Quinby (talk) 18:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The Spartans and Course of Freedom have a parliamentary group!!!! It's not the same, please, if you don't understand the Greek parliamentary system don't make changes. 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:27, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

where is Movement of Democracy? 193.92.155.183 (talk) 18:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

No, this is pretty open and shut. The literal parliament website does not cite display them as having MPs. Therefore it must be removed immediately per policies. Rambling Rambler (talk) 14:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rambling Rambler could you point me to former discussion on that point? I'm not aware of any, and don't see problem in having it with a note attached as all 5 MPs are in the party. Quinby (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Literally just a basic violation of Wikipedia core policies of WP:V and WP:OR.

The website for the parliament itself explicitly does not list this group as having any MPs and the article you cite, using machine-translation, merely states "the first to sign the founding declaration were the MPs who left SYRIZA and became independent. That is, it was K. Malama, R. Christidou, A. Avlonitis, G. Poulos and Theodora Tzakri". The only other source on the page discussing the founding also only states "It is noted that the independent MPs Kyriaki Malama, Theodora Tzakri, Alexandros Avlonitis, Rallia Christidou and Iota Poulos attended the event" which again is not saying they sit as MPs of that party.

So no source as presented actually lists them as MPs of the party. That is an assumption you have made and introduced without a source to back it up. Rambling Rambler (talk) 14:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

thank you very much for your edits!!! since yesterday I try to say the obvious!!! 193.92.155.183 (my ip change automatically, sorry) 77.49.201.141 (talk) 18:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

can you please give your opinion on the title issue as well? No english speaking source mentions it as "Democracy Movement" 77.49.201.141 (talk) 18:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rambling Rambler and anonmous user: In Hellas, we have parliamentary groups (κοινοβουλευτικές ομάδες, Κ.Ο.). The website of the Hellenic Parliament, display only those groups, and not the parties that are represented in the parliament. That does not mean, that a party does not have representation, if it cannot build a parliamentary group. Democracy Movement have 5 parliamentary independent MPs in the Hellenic Parliament. Those MPs are attached, so it is actually 5/300. Greek Rebel (talk) 16:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Democracy Movement have 5 parliamentary independent MPs in the Hellenic Parliament.

You've literally just stated they sit as independents then. So they have 0/300. Rambling Rambler (talk) 16:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rambling Rambler My friend, being parliamentary independent in Hellas, means you don't belong in a parliamentary group. A parliamentary group and a political party is something different. A party could have MPs, but not a parliamentary group. This is exactly the case of Democracy Movement. Greek Rebel (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not. There is no source to support any claim they are sitting for that political party. The parliament's website doesn't show it, and from all those presented no sources show it. You're just claiming you know better which is WP:OR. Rambling Rambler (talk) 19:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rambling Rambler The parliament website is not responsible of displaying the political party of each MP. It is responsible of displayin the parliamentary groups. Those are two different things. Greek Rebel (talk) 01:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)