Talk:Mozilla Firefox

Firefox (disambiguation) or Mozilla Firefox

I've changed this back to pointing to Mozilla Firefox, rather than Firefox (disambiguation), as I think 99% of people looking for Firefox will probably want the browser. --H2g2bob 20:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

biased assumption.70.48.250.225 04:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Just eyeballing, but it looks like about 99% of Firefox links are referring to the browser. This isn't surprising either. —Tokek 11:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

rather logical assumption. Sparsefarce 05:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It's important for me, so it must be important for everyone else, that sure is logical. 70.48.250.225 09:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Instead of writing unconstructive criticisms and hostility, could you at least explain the reasoning for your own edits, since you are making edits to the page? Thanks. —Tokek 11:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

reason is obvious, remove bias. 70.48.250.225 11:06, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The topic is what to do about the bias introduced by your edit. Check out how the redirect template can be used. For example, it's used in the "Autumn" article, which causes the following line to be displayed in it:

"Fall" redirects here. For other uses, see Fall (disambiguation).

Which is pretty self explanatory. What we're trying to do here is have Firefox redirect to Mozilla Firefox, and from that page, people who wanted to can click on the disambiguation link. This template is used throughout Wikipedia for reasons similar to what have already been mentioned above. —Tokek 12:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, didn't mean to cause trouble :D I've removed redirect template I added from the top of mozilla firefox (as this was changed back to redirect to the disambiguation page).

I'd like to see Firefox redirect to Mozilla Firefox, as it's IMO the most likely article to be wanted. If Google is any indication, out of the top 100 results for firefox, all of them are to do with the web browser, except for the film (imdb) at 28 and a camera shop at 88. Admittedly, Google's results may be skewed towards technology-lovers, but still...

However, if there's no consensus for the redirect then I'd like to suggest that Firefox is put at the top of the list for the disambiguation page. --H2g2bob 19:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The google test is stupid. If there's no consensus, then it's default to the disambiguation page. 70.48.250.225 09:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

That's true, WP:DAB does say that no consensus means make the redirect go to the disambiguation page, and while you appear to be the only one who objects, you do make up 25% of the group. I'd still like to suggest that firefox is put at the top of the disambiguation page though. --h2g2bob

Moved web browser to top of disambiguation page. --H2g2bob 02:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

To move the status quo (per everyone who has reverted your changes) from Mozilla Firefox to any of the movie/book/other items than someone has to give at least some evidence of how they trump the obvious notability of Mozilla Firefox as the no. 2 for market share in its field. Ansell 23:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well I compiled a chart from the article history information for analysis (I know, I'm really taking the bait on this). Of the more than 500 day period that this article has existed, ~ 97.5% of the time it has been a redirect to Mozilla Firefox. In any given stretch of time, a redirect to Firefox (disambiguation) is quickly fixed within a week by any number of users who happen to stumble across such a biased and problematic edit. The article is fixed soon for obvious navigational reasons that are already mentioned above and can be easily reiterated. However, when the page is a redirect to Mozilla Firefox, people don't find the need to edit the redirect page because they don't find it to be broken. I guess the next logical direction the discussion should head is whether we want the Firefox page to be locked as a redirect to Mozilla Firefox to prevent further abuse, as the abuse is kinda lame and a waste of time. See chart below. —Tokek 03:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Other	RMF	RFD	Duration	Date	User	Edit summary
	42		42	11/27/2004	Sonjaaa	R to Mozilla Firefox
		6	6	01/08/2005	64.230.44.156	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	21		21	01/14/2005	Oven Fresh	R to Mozilla Firefox
		3	3	02/04/2005	Leopard	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	370		370	02/07/2005	217.88.226.4	R to Mozilla Firefox
0			0	02/12/2006	Super3boy	vandalism
	85		85	02/12/2006	Weregerbil	R to Mozilla Firefox
0			0	05/08/2006	67.9.131.71	R to Firefox (novel)
	27		27	05/08/2006	That Guy, From That Show	R to Mozilla Firefox
		4	4	06/04/2006	Anarchopedia	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	5		5	06/08/2006	Tokek	R to Mozilla Firefox
		0	0	06/13/2006	70.48.250.130	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	1		1	06/13/2006	H2g2bob	R to Mozilla Firefox
		0	0	06/14/2006	70.48.250.225	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	1		1	06/14/2006	Tokek	R to Mozilla Firefox
		0	0	06/15/2006	70.48.250.225	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	0		0	06/15/2006	Tokek	R to Mozilla Firefox
		1	1	06/15/2006	70.48.250.225	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
	0		0	06/16/2006	Piguy	R to Mozilla Firefox
—	—	—	—	06/16/2006	70.48.250.225	R to Firefox (disambiguation)
0	552	14	566	Total
0%	97.5%	2.5%	100%

Would it be useful to invite some other people to comment on this issue? We all seem to have strong points of view, and finding a compromise may be difficult, so having others who can look at this issue from the point of view of an average user might be useful. If you think this is a good idea, I can put a request into Wikipedia:Requests for comment or Wikipedia:Current surveys. --H2g2bob 15:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC) (updated 17:02)

Wikipedia is not democracy, so the chart is irrelevent. BTW, most of the "fixes" were done by yourself. 70.48.250.87 08:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

In this case, Wikipedia IS a democracy of sorts. If most people who type in "firefox" want the web browser, it should point there. If there is a significant amount of people typing "firefox" want some of the other pages, it should point to the disambiguation. After all, redirects are pages simply to make peoples lives easier. At any rate, sending this to Wikipedia:Current surveys may give some fresh ideas - do you have any views on this? --H2g2bob 11:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason why wikipedia can't be a democracy on this. The standard is not to always make names go to their diambiguation. That is what {{otheruses4}} is about at the top of a page. I think it is highly relevant to have it direct to Mozilla Firefox unless someone is willing to show a higher notability on any of the other disambiguated subjects. Ansell 00:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Arguments over redirects and disambiguations is perhaps one of th more trivial arguments I have seen on wikipedia. Please familiarise yourelves with Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Confusion and ask yourself, what do most of the pages directed to Firefox refer to. Then ask yourself, is disambiguation of this necessary? MyNameIsNotBob 06:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Firefox should definitely remain a redirect to Mozilla Firefox, as it always has. The anon, so far, proved to be unreasonable and unwilling to accept the position of the overwhelming majority. It's one of the lamest revert wars I've ever seen. - Sikon 18:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Firefox may be important to you, but not everyone else. Jameihd 20:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is a clear second in the browser market. Noone has still said why the other articles being disambiguated are more prominent in their fields than Firefox is in its. Ansell 23:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that supporters of the Mozilla Firefox are posting evidence (or at least attempting to), while those wishing to link to the disamaguation page are posting only their own opinions. For example the number of web pages on the internet for different types of Firefox have over half refering to Mozilla Firefox and only 5% refering to the Film (evidence - "Firefox": 458M; "Firefox mozilla OR browser": 260M (over half); "Firefox film OR 1982 OR clint OR eastwood": 27M (less than 5%); "Firefox craig OR thomas" 14M (even less).)

Also, you can look at Google Trends to see what people are actually typing into google. More people are performing google searches on "Mozilla Firefox" than are for "Clint Eastwood" in total [1] (Firefox Film and Firefox 1982 didn't turn up enough results to display). These results are both less than more generic "firefox" searches [2], but looking closely you might spot the trend line follows Mozilla Firefox related events quite well (try selecting years to "zoom in").

Anyway, I think Mozilla Firefox is the page where most people want to get to when they search for Firefox. So Firefox should redirect there rather than to the disambiguation page (see these guidelines for more). If you don't accept that Google is a fair comparison, and instead think that Mozilla Firefox is not the primary topic in this case, then I ask that you provide more than just an opinion, or open this up to wider debate in a poll. --H2g2bob 23:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This search shows that a few million of the Craig Thomas references infact were for Mozilla Firefox, as the keywords browser and plugin are unlikely to be in reference to a book, but are about the browser. Ansell 00:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted previous discussion

I think this page should redirect to "Mozilla Firefox". Since it is very much more common than any of the other uses I don't see why it shouldn't. Shell-man 02:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

In a lengthy previous discussion, a majority of participants (including me) agreed that Firefox should redirect to Mozilla Firefox. It was deleted after a strange speedy request was approved:

• 05:45, 4 January 2007 Keegan (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Firefox" ‎ (content was: '{{speedy|A not needed talk page. I created this page. Please delete.--Meno25 05:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)}}')

Link. See also: Talk:Firefox (disambiguation) —Tokek 06:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I restored the deleted discussion, there was a obvious useful discussion here and the page was not created by Meno25. Carlosguitar ^{(Yes Executor?)} 23:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey there, sorry about that deletion. That was one of around 390 some odd talk page deletions I performed for Meno25 on that day, as he accidentally used AWB to create a mass number of unneeded redirect. This page was mistakenly tagged and deleted as a redirect with no history. Thanks for noticing and fixing it, Tokek and Carlosguitar. Keegan^talk 02:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes as Keegan said. Sorry guys for that mistake. --Meno25 (talk) 16:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation page

Given as "Firefox" stands for a very popular browser, aswell as a very popular film, amongst even more things, it it senseless to discuss which one of them is the most important. I have therefor redirected the page to the disambiguation page. Niderbib (talk) 14:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Look at the "What links here" and check article space. The vast majority are referring to the browser. How often are people looking for the other meanings of Firefox? 209.82.43.120 (talk) 13:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

That is not a relevant argument. Wikilinks are made up in that manner because the Firefox page has been linking to the browser. Niderbib (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A Google search on Firefox gives ~305 million results. Firefox -Mozilla gives ~39 million. (With some still referring to the browser). Given that almost 90% of the results for Firefox contain Mozilla, it's clear that for the majority of the internet, Firefox means the browser. Also, links to Firefox were presumably used because that's the common name for the browser. Most of the Internet uses Firefox to mean Mozilla Firefox so that's how they'll continue to link it. Beyond that, changing the redirect puts all of the in-article links to Firefox to point to a disambiguation which is a Bad Thing. If you want this change made, go fix all of the broken redirects you're making. 209.82.43.120 (talk) 14:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I have re-instated the redirect to Mozilla Firefox – the vast majority of users searching for "Firefox" will be looking for the browser. — Xy7 (talk) 17:28, 20 April 2008

I agree. I don't see why a "other uses" message can't be put at the top of the Mozilla Firefox page when Firefox redirects there. Can we please get consensus instead of having edit wars? Timmeh! 20:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

If you remove other related words like browser, internet, web, explorer, microsoft, extension (which possibly could but won't remove very many hits for other uses) you're down to about 3 million results, where some still refer to the browser. So I'd say that at most 1 % of the hits for Firefox don't refer to the browser. Of course, since searching on the internet obviously would give an unproportional amount of hits for internet related terms the search is biased, but I still doubt that real world uses would weigh it up. So I think it's clear that it should redirect to Mozilla Firefox. Is it possible to reach consensus, or would a vote be more appropriate? Shell-man (talk) 23:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree! ––Stijak (talk) 08:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Polling is not a substitute for discussion. As of 2008 it is better to redirect to Mozilla Firefox. Searching on Google News I get 65,600 for firefox, removing -version -safari -mozilla -browser -web -internet -explorer -microsoft -thunderbird the result drops to 7,510 yet with majority links related to Mozilla Firefox. Firefox Communications Inc has 60 hits. 135 for Firefox bike and 446 for Firefox film with Clint Eastwood. The animal Red Panda has only 6 hits and Red Fox has only 1 hit but not related to the fox. So I do not see why redirect to the disambiguation page. Firefox should only be redirected to the disambiguation page when the browser becomes obsolete or unpopulated. I believe we will need wait some or many decades to do such thing since the browser keep growing up in market share. Also the {{redirect|Firefox}} at top of article does the job. Carlosguitar ^{(Yes Executor?)} 22:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)