Talk:Murder of Kristine Fitzhugh

Removal of information

Curious as to why so much information was removed for this article and the edit notes read "CE"? Things removed include: all references of this case in popular culture, the address of the crime committed, details about what happened after Kenneth's conviction and removal of of citations. Does generalizing this case and shortening this article improve something? Jooojay (talk) 06:06, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Cultural references (removed)

• List of City Confidential episodes, (season 10), episode 115, "Flesh and Blood"
• Forensic Files (season 14), episode 3, "Hell's Kitchen"
• Suburban Secrets (season 2), episode 13, "Kristine Fitzhugh Case"
• Cold Blood (season 4), episode 20 - "The Truth Hurts"
• Grave Secrets (Season 1), Episode 7, "Bottom of the Stairs"

• Unless they're somehow significant, we don't include street addresses where horrors have taken place -- WP:NOTGUIDE.
• If Madonna writes a song about the crime, and we have a source commenting on what the song tells us about popular perceptions of the Fitzhughs, that would be a cultural reference; straight-reporting true-crime TV shows are no more cultural references than are newspaper coverage.
• I don't know what you mean by details about what happened after Kenneth's conviction.
• Details such as the name and affiliation of the phone technician who figured out where KF's phone was waste the reader's time and tell him nothing.

EEng 18:07, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm considering a mass revert. In addition to deleting a lot of material, the edits have introduced confusion and error. There was undiluted blood on the furniture; the floor and walls had been wiped clean, so luminol was required to detect it. The number of true crime shows produced show the silk stocking character and CSI appeal of the crime. Verizon was essential to the destruction of the alibi; nobody saw KF in Burlingame inspecting some real estate, KF claimed to be southbound on 101 near Menlo Park when he took the call from school, but the call went over a sector antenna pointing away from Menlo Park but toward Fitzhugh's house. The defense hired an expert to show a connection could be made to the wrong-facing antenna. In addition, random intruders do not clean up crime scenes. There were also little gotchas: KF was a dapper dresser, but police noticed him wearing white socks and back shoes, so they went looking for more appropriate shoes; the shoes were in his car, underneath the seat. KF testified in his own defense, and it misfired. Glrx (talk) 19:24, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

• There was undiluted blood on the furniture – The prior version of the article said nothing about this. Feel free to add it.
• the floor and walls had been wiped clean, so luminol was required to detect it. – Fine, say that.
• The number of true crime shows produced show the silk stocking character and CSI appeal of the crime. – That's pure WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. If you have an RS explicitly stating the significance of these shows to an understanding of the subject, please cite it.
• Verizon was essential to the destruction of the alibi; – Many people and entities contributed to the investigation. No one cares that a particular phone company did a particular thing. Phone records showed X, and that's all that matters, unless there's some controversy about it. (It sounds like there might be -- see next bullet point -- but none of that was in the article when I arrived here.)
• nobody saw KF in Burlingame inspecting some real estate, KF claimed to be southbound on 101 near Menlo Park when he took the call from school, but the call went over a sector antenna pointing away from Menlo Park but toward Fitzhugh's house. The defense hired an expert to show a connection could be made to the wrong-facing antenna. In addition, random intruders do not clean up crime scenes. There were also little gotchas: KF was a dapper dresser, but police noticed him wearing white socks and back shoes, so they went looking for more appropriate shoes; the shoes were in his car, underneath the seat. KF testified in his own defense, and it misfired. – None of this was in the article when I arrived here, so I have no idea what you're complaining about.

What confusion? What error? Paging Kieronoldham. EEng 22:07, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I have never contributed to this article, but I have looked at the edits EEng has made and I agree with his justification for all the edits made. There was superfluous wording, conjecture, etc. and I suspect that is what in part accounted for the article initially reading in areas like a true crime show transcript. These unreliable, fanzine-like references had been allowed to seep through and are not considered reliable references. Likely, the previous version was transcribed in parts from these episodes. See WP:NOTGUIDE as EEng has already linked. Best way to see any information you would like to see reinserted would be to find reputable, verifiable references. They shouldn't be difficult to find. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:09, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

References like this are more reputable than Grave Secrets, season one. Regards,--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:15, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Some of the citations removed were from reliable sources too. I am still unclear why this was necessary, this article is so general now about this case that I would be prompted to read another website. Details of the case were all over international news at the time of the case, it was a huge trial. I would never know that if I read this WP article today. Jooojay (talk) 01:30, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Jooojay, I agree it is slightly condensed now, and I am not holding cards close to my chest here (hey I haven't added or removed anything to the article myself). However, you may wish to populate and expand the article yourself? Take it as a challenge. If it is as international as you say, I may be glad to expand it to a degree with you. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:50, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, I don't understand what Jooojay is talking about. Jooojay, if you'll specify just what it is that got removed, we can talk about it. Please, though, do not (as did Glrx) list a bunch of "removals" that weren't in the article in the first place. EEng 01:58, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

• I second the c Carlm0404 (talk) 00:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

  Um... what? EEng 04:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Restore the TV shows

They are sources of information, and their existence is part of the history of the incident. Look at the article on the Binion Silver Murders, which also has a list of books on the subject. Great research tool. 2A00:23C5:E08D:8A00:B909:DAB4:C2A5:B53A (talk) 22:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)