Talk:Musicians of the Titanic

Previous discussion

From User talk:Prioryman:

My apologies for changing the class from B to List for Lifeboats of the RMS Titanic. I know you are a hardworker on that; sometimes, I see things differently, such as List of Sailor Moon characters. To make up my misconceptions, I am proposing a merger of the below orchestra members into Orchestra of the RMS Titanic:

• Theodore Ronald Brailey,
• Roger Marie Bricoux,
• Wallace Hartley,
• John Law Hume,
• Georges Alexandre Krins
• People who has no articles on their own (see Crew of the RMS Titanic#Ship's orchestra: Mr. John Frederick Preston Clarke; Mr. Percy Cornelius Taylor; Mr. John Wesley Woodward

What do you say? --George Ho (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Good idea in principle, but not by that article name - Titanic didn't have an orchestra or a band, she had two separate ensembles of musicians who only played together for the first and last time during the sinking. If you call it Musicians of the RMS Titanic that should be fine. Prioryman (talk) 15:00, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

So this idea is uncontroversial, correct? If so, can I boldly do the merging now? I can simply merge without much substantial editing, so you can do the rest. How's that? --George Ho (talk) 20:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Can I first either merge them or discuss the merge proposal? --George Ho (talk) 08:33, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I've had a few more thoughts about this. I think, to be honest, that the articles should probably be left unmerged, as there is quite a lot of material in them, particularly Wallace Hartley. However, I think there is a degree of overlap between the articles, and there needs to be an overview article (Musicians of the RMS Titanic). Sorting it all out is likely to be quite a complex task... Prioryman (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll just create the merger discussion in no time. --George Ho (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Merger request

I am proposing a merger of the following articles: Theodore Ronald Brailey, Roger Marie Bricoux, John Law Hume, and Georges Alexandre Krins. I do not find these people inherently notable and independent from the RMS Titanic. In fact, I found them notable for most likely the Titanic incident. Sure, these biographies have educational and historical value, but, to me, their strengths as stand-alone articles are insufficient enough. For example, I don't know if I want to learn about John Law Hume other than for mostly Titanic stuff. I don't know how John Law Hume is independently notable, but the article explains the brief life, career, and death of John Law Hume and omits any accomplishments, verifiable by reliable sources. However, Prioryman may disagree that they be merged here. --George Ho (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

George, what you have done is merge the article. What I meant was to create an article about he musicians as a group, such as the orchestra's role, etc. The merge is done, you did it, so I'm redirecting the person articles. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 00:18, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

If anyone feels this merge was wrong, feel free to revert, but do it right. That means deleting or summarizing the content on this page before restoring the biography page. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 00:38, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Wallace Hartley

Prioryman says that Wallace Hartley must be left unmerged. However, he is notable for only Titanic incident and one song. I don't know if he passes general notability and/or is inherently notable, but I'm not sure if his notability is strong enough for the stand-alone article. --George Ho (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I have removed Hartley to its own. His history is more than just as a musician of the ship, and the background to the person clearly is a part of his reaction on the day, though it is this one event that makes him notable. Some may say that others should be specifically listed in this article, but point to main for Hartley. There are many people who have notability for one event where it is a significant piece in history, for instance most assassins are separately listed, not as a sub-note to an assassination. I also note that most of the interlanguage wikis have their own articles for Hartley.

Titanic Musicians' Memorial, Southampton

This article has potential to be a great independent article, but I don't think inherited notability strengthens the article's quality, as the article itself is short but sufficient and well-referenced. While it has the DYK hook, I still don't think DYK strengthens the topic's notability and article quality. --George Ho (talk) 06:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Another possible destination for this merge is Memorials and monuments to the RMS Titanic victims D O N D E groovily Talk to me 03:29, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I've added proposal banner there at your request. --George Ho (talk) 04:00, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I disagree that the article should be merged into this one. This is meant to be an overview article, linking out to detailed articles on the more notable individual memorials (which the Musicians' Memorial certainly is). It will get unusably long if the subsidiary articles are merged back into this one. It does not have "inherited notability" but is clearly notable in its own right, since the memorial is covered by multiple independent reliable sources. Prioryman (talk) 07:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Needs sections of other three men

Mini-biographies of three other men (John Wesley Woodward, John Frederick Preston Clarke, and Percy Cornelius Taylor) should be researched and then created in this article. --George Ho (talk) 17:53, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Wallace Henry Hartley

Musicians names each section of the 4 out of the 5 not including Wallace Henry Hartley says, "He died in the disaster", Why doesn't Wallace Henry Hartley section not consistent with the other 4 of 5 the members, should additionally say "He died in the disaster"? Confirmed in wikipedia article /Wallace_Hartley reference source #6 that "he died in the disaster".

"He died in the disaster":

1. Theodore Ronald Brailey
2. Roger Marie Bricoux
3. Wallace Henry Hartley - Missing "He died in the disaster"
4. John Law Hume
5. Georges Alexandre Krins

Editing for consistency

--Icon256 (talk) 23:45, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

References

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Titanic which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:33, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Band playing as the ship went down

The claim that the band was playing music "for as long as they could" or as the titanic was sinking is repeated in this article and other articles on Wikipedia, without any good sources that I can find. This claim is refuted by at least two eye-witnesses who were passengers on the Titanic at the time, and who stated as such on video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xKDRmhp6lQ . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.30.136.215 (talk) 07:50, 19 April 2022 (UTC)