Talk:My Michael

Requested move 16 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. A clear consensus that the novel is the primary topic, not the film.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:37, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

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• My Michael (novel) → My Michael
• My Michael → My Michael (film)

– In most of the cases I've seen, the original book gets the one-name title, and the film adaptation gets the disambiguation. For example, another one of Amos Oz's famous works: A Tale of Love and Darkness (the novel) and A Tale of Love and Darkness (film). In this case, the novel is far more notable and significant than the film, and should get the single title without disambiguation. Yoninah (talk) 23:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support The novel seems to be a primary topic by page views (we aren't talking a big numbers, but it's still clear), as well as a greater claim to long term significance. Given that we only have two topics, a book and an adaptation of it, it seems most useful to readers to have one at the primary.--Yaksar (let's chat) 05:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vincent60030 (talk) 19:11, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in My Michael, a 1968 novel by Amos Oz about an unhappy wife, critics found allusions to the Arab–Israeli conflict and the abandonment of the Zionist dream?Source: "We follow their relationship from courtship to marriage, pregnancy and the birth of their son, through a slow decline to Hannah's nervous breakdown" (The New York Times); "I think that the implications of the Israel-Arab conflict, indirect as they are, enraged some readers" (The Guardian), also other sources; "The observer of Israeli life stands perplexed at this outburst of bleak, depressive pessimism amidst a new, achievement-oriented society largely predicated on a brilliant dream" (The Israelis: Founders and Sons))

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jordan Pang
• Comment: I requested a page move to My Michael on August 16; the discussion is still ongoing.

5x expanded by Yoninah (talk). Self-nominated at 11:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC).

Interesting book, on plenty of fine sources, no copyvio obvious. How about a pic of the author, here and/or in the article? - I think both lead and hook suffer from over-simplification, - "about an unhappy wife" is really rather general, - how about at least mentioning "fist-person" - which then isn't "about", but she speaks herself? - In the lead, there's talk about a film, but never again. I don't need the clumsy "Hebrew-language" there, - default, no? Can we have a bit more about that film, until it may get it's own article. Just asking, I can take no ;) - How about a hook more in the line of the contrast of the contrast of the dream of a new society and bleak pessimism? - I'll approve the above if no. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you for the review. In answer to your points:
  1. Commons has one black and white and rather dark picture of the author from 1965, which is when he started writing. The next date is 2004, when he's an old man. I don't think a picture is going to work.
  2. The lead does say it's a first-person narrative. I changed "unhappy" to "dissatisfied". I read the novel first and I can tell you that that's the best description of her.
  3. I added a section for the film adaptation. It has its own article, but I'm waiting for the outcome of my requested page move so that the novel will get the title only and the film will get the disambiguation of "film" in the page name.
  4. In Israel, the novel aroused tremendous controversy for its treatment of Arab-Jewish relations and allusions to the death of the Zionist dream. Internationally, it launched Amoz Oz to fame based on his literary style, but the controversy in the Middle East gave it the attention in the first place. Please give me more time to work on a better hook. Yoninah (talk) 23:37, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

  Thank you, well said. Take your time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

• What do you think about:
• ALT1: ... that My Michael, a novel by Israeli author Amos Oz set in Jerusalem of the 1950s, was reviled by critics as "politically dangerous and subversive"? Yoninah (talk) 12:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  I approve that, but silently hope for a return (in ALT2) of the "dream" in a wording without "unhappy wife". ALT1 rather stays at a general surface, and gives nothing away about the plot. I like how the setting is described. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Gerda, if you can suggest wording that doesn't reach 200 characters I'm all for it. The dream and the pessimism are all quotes from critic Amos Elon, and adding his name in addition to the author's name and name of the novel makes for an unwieldy hook. Yoninah (talk) 14:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

    I see the problem but would not be good for a solution. ALT1 is approved. - Thanks for adjusting to the article move to some extent, Mandarax, would you please do the rest? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:13, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• OK, thanks. What didn't I do regarding the page move? I reformatted this template. Yoninah (talk) 14:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• You are right, I think, sorry, - I misread the DYKmake entry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, everything was fine except for the purely cosmetic header, which I've now changed. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 17:59, 24 August 2020 (UTC)