Talk:Mystery Science Theater 3000/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

A Platicar a su Casa

Mexican comedian Andres Bustamante had developed a TV show similar to the MST3K format, called "A Platicar a su Casa", with fellow comedian "Trino". It didn't have the same premise, just two guys who went to see a movie. The films played were also very bad, like Santo or Blue Demon wrestling movies or other "horror" mexican movies. Shouldn't they mention it in the show's influence? --Surten (talk) 05:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)Surten

Do you have a reliable source for this information; e.g., a print publication or news website (not a discussion forum or blog) that describes this program and suggests the MST3K influence? Unfortunately, IMDb doesn't seem to know about this program yet, and what I found from a quick Google seemed to be the usual suspects of copyright-violating video uploads. They certainly indicate the likely truth of your assertion, but don't provide the verifiability that we need. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 12:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Horror Hosts

MST3k, at least the host segments, look like they were heavily influenced by a long tradition of late-night horror hosts. Without a citation, it's not worth putting in an article, but it needs to be said. Tritium h3 (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Puppetry or children's show contributions

Is it ok to put something in about their contributions to those two genres? --Chrisbuzzard (talk) 18:52, 3 August 2008 (UTC)Chrisbuzzard

Mystery Science Theater 2000

The article mentions that they wanted it to be 2000 before 3000. Well, I watched this show when it first came out, and it was 2000. It was only for a short while before they changed it, but it was 2000. Don't know where I'd find refrences. Was early 90s in southern California on cable.69.153.249.35 (talk) 02:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

• • You won't find sources because they don't exist to support such a claim. The show has been called Mystery Science Theater 3000 from their beginnings on KTMA. Redfarmer (talk) 15:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The Future

This section (actually the entire article) is biased towards MST3K.com/Jim Mallon's group being *the* continuation of the MST3K legacy, when in fact RiffTrax is far more prolific and popular. (they aren't even listed in External Links) This is also evident in the "Cast" table which lists the Flash episodes. These have nothing to do with MST3K except the name. When did the Wikipedia community decide that MST3K.com is "official" and RiffTrax (despite produced by the main talents) is completely unrelated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.149.35.192 (talk) 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

What became of the news of the cast and crew's joint appearance at Comic-Con? With all the "faction" stuff going on in the past year, it was certainly news to me. Km9000 (talk) 07:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

DVD availability?

So this IS on DVD, right (not counting the feature film)? The article sort of dances around the topic. I mean, it sounds like at least SOME episodes are on DVD. --98.232.182.66 (talk) 06:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's a separate page linked for lists of DVDs and videos, and a page for a list of all episodes (which includes DVD info). Km9000 (talk) 07:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Fanfic MSTing?

Should there be a link to the MSTing article in this one? --Shay Guy (talk) 22:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Fan purchased ad PDF in wrong place?

The copyright at the bottom of the ad says 1999, and the ad itself references "two different cable TV networks" dumping the show. Wouldn't this indicate that the ad was an attempt to bring the show back after SciFi network cancelled it?99.145.181.186 (talk) 10:01, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Lawsuit Against Alamo Drafthouse Cinema

Propose adding a mention of the lawsuit against the Alamo Drafthouse Cinema of Austin, Texas, with regards to Alamo Drafthouse's "Mr. Sinus Theatre". Albeit a small and localized event, it seems to be worth mentioning for the fact that it did affect MST3K. Seems like it would go under 'History and background'.

• http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:82628
• http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2004/08/30/daily16.html
• http://www.klru.org/austinnow/archives/mrsinus/sinus.php

Texasrebelaggie (talk) 15:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC) texasrebelaggie

Years

is there a way to make the info box tell what years this series ran? Having to read the article to find such info seems to defeat the purpose of the info box. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 03:00, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

The dates and years of any series airings are found under "Original run" which is located towards the bottom of the infobox. Pinkadelica^♣ 06:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Nanites

hey, just wondering if the Nanites should have some mention or even their own page... they did cut Mike's hair...

J929 (talk) 00:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Backwards Puppets

I've been watching MST3K again and I've noticed that it seems the robots are facing the audience while Joel/Mike is facing the movie screen. Does anyone have any infomration pertaining to this? If so could we get it placed in the wiki article? -Calfret 28 March 2010—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.128.231 (talk) 22:16, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

It's discussed in the last paragraph of Crow T. Robot#Behind the scenes, FWIW.--NapoliRoma (talk) 11:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Category:RiffTrax films is up for deletion.

Feel free to discuss the Category:RiffTrax films's nomination for deletion here: September 2#Category:RiffTrax films.--DrWho42 (talk) 23:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Category:Mystery Science Theater 3000 films is up for deletion.

Feel free to discuss the Category:Mystery Science Theater 3000 films's nomination for deletion here: September 3#Category:Mystery Science Theater 3000 films.--DrWho42 (talk) 08:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc is up for deletion.

Feel free to discuss the Rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc's nomination for deletion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc. -84user (talk) 23:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The result of the discussion was to redirect rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc to Mystery Science Theater 3000 (I had already merged two sentences to Mystery Science Theater 3000#Usenet groups). -84user (talk) 01:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Project Popcorn article

Re:the recent article on MST3Kinfo.com, should we look into starting an article on the Russian rip-off?--DrWho42 (talk) 00:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Initial popularity

The article isn't clear about how wide the initial KTMA broadcasts were. Since it was a local station, was the show's audience at the time limited to Minnesota? Was it syndicated on national networks? That this was called "season 0" seems to indicate that these episodes were not widely known at the time, and implies even that they might have been working with smaller budgets also. Was there a pronounced change in the show's production between season 0 and being picked up for season 1? A related question would be, when did MST3K hit its peak? Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

1. Yes, the only people who could watch Season 0 were in Minneapolis and Saint Paul.
2. It was not syndicated on national networks, KTMA was a very small and virtually unknown station outside of its loyal fans.
3. The episodes were not widely known, and as for the budget—it wasn't even close to a respectable size until at least the Sci-Fi years, due to the high costs of the film rights.
4. Yes, there was a very big change between seasons 0 and 1. The plot was shaky and inconsistent in season 0—in the first episode, Joel has escaped a destroyed or otherwise damaged Earth. He had built Crow and a Servo-esque bot named Beeper for company, and the three watched the B-flicks simply for amusement. By episode K03, Beeper had become Servo with no explanation. In episode K06, Joel states that he himself chooses the movies, only to be contradicted in episode K07 which marked the first real appearance of the mad scientists. The scientists were on Earth, which was apparently just dandy and not damaged as stated in the first episode. By the end of season, the plot had morphed half-hazardly into what became the basis of the nationally-aired series.
5. There are endless debates all over the web over when MST3K hit its peak, but the general consensus seems to be somewhere between seasons 3 and 6.

Hope this cleared everything up. Tenk you veddy much. --Wack'd ^{Talk to me! • Admire my handiwork!} 14:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not clear on whether Ham's question was for personal edification or for article improvement. If the former, I certainly appreciate the info as well. But if the latter, none of it can go into the article without reliable sourcing. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Both, actually. I was personally curious but I also think it's info that should be in the article if, as you said, sources can be found. Also, by "peak" I meant its Nielsen ratings (or equivalent). A discussion of the show's quality would naturally just spark an edit war and I'm not about that. And thank you Wack'd for the info. Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Why would the cost of film rights be high when many of these films are public domain? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.250.135.51 (talk) 23:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

No mention of Timmy Big Hands?

Why is there no mention of Timmy Big Hands in the Post-Mystery Science Theater 3000 projects section? I suppose I'll get to work on that, unless someone beats me to it... Enderandpeter (talk) 17:24, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Humdinger Edition?

Does any one know anything about the Humdinger version of the movie?? I can't find any info online just shops selling them!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mystery-Science-Theater-3000-Humdinger/dp/B007HLVEJ6

http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/30288581/Mystery-Science-Theater-3000-The-Movie-The-Humdinger-Edition/Product.html?searchstring=Mystery+Science+Theater+3000+-+The+Movie+-+The+Humdinger+Edition&searchsource=0&searchtype=allproducts&urlrefer=search — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.227.22 (talk) 19:49, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Would this article fit

Category:Fictional versions of real people? Mike Nelson the writer, Mike Nelson the dude trapped in space? 173.160.130.14 (talk) 01:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Hmm - maybe... Ckruschke (talk) 16:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Mike Nelson (character) is already in the category. I'm not sure he's actually a representation of the writer, though. --McGeddon (talk) 16:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

So much of this article seems unnecessary

A lot of it seems like original research (or whatever you people call it) and probably isn't very interesting to non-fans and new comers. Plus there's a bit too much excessive information elsewhere (the "Reception" section goes on and on about the Sandy Frank rumor [and it is a rumor, people, he was even interviewed for one of Shout Factory's DVD releases] and the rights over the Gamera movies with barely any sources). Somebody (i.e. not me) should scale this thing down and make it less obnoxious. --2601:C:4380:50:B992:DF88:CC09:2115 (talk) 18:15, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the "Characteristic elements" section can be significantly condensed. yonnie (talk) 23:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I also agree. This show is great and ideally should be a Good article, but so much of it is really crufty. When I get the time, I'm going to go through and trim some of it. The "Characteristic elements" section is particularly sloppy. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 23:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Agree. The article is full of fancruft nonsense. I've done some paring down in the past, but not nearly enough... Ckruschke (talk) 14:46, 29 August 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Merger proposal

I feel that the article MSTie should be joined into the main MST3k article. There is just not enough about MSTie to truly need its own article. That article will be stub sized forever. I feel adding it to this article is the better choice. Please leave any and all opinions and comments. --Jamo58 (talk) 05:13, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support; the only thing that's sourced in the stub article is that the Best Brains recognised the fan term, and we might as well say that in the main article. The claim that "MSTie led to the creation of the verb MSTing" (rather than the verb coming directly from the name of the show) seems a little odd. --McGeddon (talk) 08:47, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Jamo58's reasoning. yonnie (talk) 14:58, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support It appears that someone created MSTie as a stub and I'm not even sure getting rid of it requires discussion/buy in. The MSTie page should be nominated for speedy deletion and one or two sentences from it should be pasted into the larger MST3K page. Ckruschke (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

That would be inappropriate. It can simply be redirected to this article (especially if we're incorporating any of the content from the page; deleting it but still using the content would be a licensing violation). EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

This is somewhat of a non-issue, but I was referring to the Wiki page. There is obviously no licensing agreement that anyone has on Wikipedia open-source content. Wiki page stubs are deleted by the dozens on a daily basis... Ckruschke (talk) 17:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

However, "MSTie" is still a searchable term, and redirects are cheap. It is better to simply edit MSTie to redirect to a section here on MST3K fans, incase in the future, for some reason, we can actually source the term better. Stubs that can be merged like this should not be deleted. --MASEM (t) 18:06, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Right. Copy/Paste content and leave a redirect in its place. That works too. My point was that the stub info shouldn't be kept as is on that page (and that comments on a licensing violation are silly...) Ckruschke (talk) 18:54, 10 July 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

• Support; there is not enough substantial coverage on the term "MSTie" as a whole, outside of the fact that fans of the show refer to themselves as MSTies. This term just isn't wide enough to deserve an article. Beerest355 Talk 20:19, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• Suppoer - While the show has a fandom, it is not as great as something like Trekkies, MLP fans, etc. that is widely documented. We can say describe it here with no problem in terms of size. --MASEM (t) 20:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support Total agreement, MSTie will never be a non-stub, and there's nothing there that can't be here instead. EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support. -- Zanimum (talk) 00:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Looked like this got universal support and then was forgotten. I made the move for the original requestor Jamo58. Ckruschke (talk) 15:55, 30 August 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Sorry everyone, I got really busy this summer and completely forgot about this. Thank you very much Ckruschke.--Jamo58 (talk) 23:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

2nd paragraph

the second paragraph states that the main features were sometimes preceded by short non-educational films. I would argue that some of them were, in fact, educational or instructional. I was watching one recently that tought about employee supervision and management, human relations, etc. PurpleChez (talk) 21:42, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

I think it should say "shorts" for the reason you mention. Not sure where "non-educational" came from... Ckruschke (talk) 19:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Oops, I should have mentioned I did rewrite that a bit, as "non-educational" really doesn't make sense. --MASEM (t) 19:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Syfy, the Sci Fi Channel, Syfy Universal

opening graf said show was picked up by the Sci Fi Channel, but that now redirects to Syfy Universal. It probably should not so redirect, because the entity once known as the Sci Fi Channel (USA) is now Syfy -- the entity Syfy Universal did not even exist prior to 2010. Rather than get caught up in questions about how "the Sci Fi Channel" should redirect, I revised the article to say "Syfy (then known as The Sci-Fi Channel)" Bustter (talk) 16:46, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

 Fixed Separated the two - again - since someone undid your previous edit. I made the distinction obvious.

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kickstarter

This may be of interest: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k/description --anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:5D0:2:211:21F:3AFF:FE04:2B11 (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Inclusion of Satellite News and Annotated MST as EL

While WP:ELNO does caution against the use of fansites, both Satellite News and Annotated MST sites have been called out as fan sites by other RSes, with the former being noted as the site that tracks ongoing fan activity and was featured in one of the box sets, and Annotated MST is being used by Shout! to annotate their YouTube free episodes. While I definitely caution against random fansites, these are not of that type and should be included. --MASEM (t) 00:59, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I can, to an extent, see the inclusion of Satellite News as it has in the past been closely associated with the show. However, I don't see how the Annotated MST meets the WP:ELNO criteria: "This exception for blogs, etc., controlled by recognized authorities is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities who are individuals always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for people." I honestly don't think that any of the people involved with the Annotated MST meet that criteria. Chris "Sampo" Cornell may meet it, though just doing a quick Google search nothing much pops up except other fansites in the MST community and links to social media accounts. He's been featured in multiple fan-made short films that Shout! Factory has included on DVD releases of the show, but I don't feel that's enough to justify notability. A helpful step in deciding whether or not to include these sites would be the inclusion of the reliable sources you mention. It's of little importance how active any of these people are in the MST3K fanbase. What's important is where they stand outside of it. Friginator (talk) 01:55, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Two reliable sources talking about Annotated MST in relation to Shout's youtube releases [1], [2] Not enough for notability, but enough to be a useful link. --MASEM (t) 02:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

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Should we start a MST3K WikiProject?

I think we should start a MST3K Wikiproject to help keep related articles to be clean and organized. What do you guys think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captain8track (talk • contribs) 21:23, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Far too few articles that would fall under it. We shouldn't be touching any of the original films riffed on outside of ones like Manos that gained notability from MST3K, primarily leaving the cast and crew. That's maybe a couple dozen+ articles, too small for a Wikiproject. --MASEM (t) 00:22, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll admit I have only seen a few episodes of this series, but weren't most of the films depicted actually obscure? Several were decades-old and nearly forgotten. For example the series used The Mad Monster (1942), a public domain film by the long-defunct company Producers Releasing Corporation. They also used The Corpse Vanishes (1942), which I loved as a teenager. It is a Monogram Pictures release, and that company ceased production in the early 1950s. Dimadick (talk) 22:19, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Most were, yes, but even still, all but a few haven't really become less obscure due to MST3K. In other words, I don't think an MST3K project would be necessarily responsible for handling content on those films, outline of a line saying that they were on an episode (Contrast that to Manos or Time Chasers which can attribute newfound interest from MST3K). --MASEM (t) 22:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

MST3K on YouTube

Shouldn't we mention that almost every episode of MST3K can be found on YouTube?

After the show was canceled in 1999, the show remained on Comedy Central until January 2004. While the show is no longer on TV, several of the episodes can be found on YouTube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.171.230.145 (talk) 03:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

No, because they're not supposed to be there due to copyright law. A copyright holds whether or not a show is canceled. Jason Patton (talk) 03:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree in saying no, but let me clarify what you said. If I recall correctly, most of the episodes put up on youtube (or was it google video?) were put up by bestbrains or some association thereof. They own the copyright to it so they put it up legally. Either way I still say no to adding links too.Imasleepviking ( talk ) 05:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Right, the Google Video uploads are legit AFAIK, though I think they only have 20 episodes available. If there were a way to use one link for them all (I'm not sure how you can link to a specific user's list of videos on Google), it might be good for inclusion under External Links, but that information certainly don't deserve its own section. Jason Patton (talk) 06:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy forbids linking to pages that contain material that is known to violate copyrights, and discourages most links to YouTube and Google Video for this reason. (Read WP:COPY#Linking to copyrighted works and WP:EL#Linking to YouTube, Google Video, and similar sites for more info.) I can assure you from my own investigations that users claiming names like "BestBrains" are frequently not the legal entities implied by the names on these sites. Do not even think of linking to these videos unless you have documentation from reliable sources that the users posting these have complete legal rights to do so. Each and every episode of MST3K is copyrighted (even if some of the movies used aren't), and probably will remain so for decades to come. I am posting this here so that no one can claim ignorance of the likelihood that such web-based video clips are illegal. I love MST3K, too, but I don't want Wikipedia endangered just for our convenience. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd also point out that we've discussed this before here, at "Copyright issues" and "Removed Google Video mention" on archive 1 of this talk page. The second discussion identifies Google Video user "Best Brains Inc." as a copyright violator, as they'd posted an entire Rhino DVD episode ("Space Mutiny"), which BBI does not have the legal right to do, pretty much guaranteeing that this user was not BBI or a representative of them. Please consider that user-edited sites like wikis and video-upload services usually take no responsibility whatsoever for any claims that their users make, including who they really are. (That's one reason why we require reliable sources and don't accept personal testimony from editors.) In the Internet age, we all need a little less credulity and a little more skepticism, however it may interfere with our wishes. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Holy christ child, Mr. FBI. We are in no way encouraging the posting of these videos to be posted here. In fact, we've all disagreed with the original poster. Don't bring fire and brimstone down on us.Imasleepviking ( talk ) 16:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like to point out that episode K00, the "pilot," is no longer a lost episode - a fan copy now exists. For VERIFICATION PURPOSES here is a url- h ttp://www.dapcentral.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=980&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 . I am not in any way affiliated with BBI or MST3K in any way. I realize the copyright issues inherent, but I am not suggesting either a link or direction be added to the page, simply the information that the copy does, in fact, exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.180.12.153 (talk) 16:12, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

And yet, we're faced with the plain fact that no effort has been made to block videos of full episodes that have been up for years and years now, despite Youtube's policy of super-responsiveness to claims of copyright infringement. Could this be part of the "Keep circulating the tapes" legacy? After all, there is no other TV show I know of where I can search Youtube with "name_of_tv_show, long" and actually come up with results. Try "seinfeld, long" then try "mst3k, long". That's relevant. Arcolye (talk) 01:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I mostly don't have a dog in this "put up the videos or don't" debacle, BUT, there are indeed a few unlicensed copies floating around, but not many. +++++ HOWEVER, Shout Factory! and Joel Hodgson (100% owners of the show) are the ones who published the majority of the videos on YouTube +++++ as this use: https://www.youtube.com/user/mst3kofficial. That's why there have been no copyright complaints, and that's also why no one has attempted to remove them from YouTube; the copyright holders posted the videos themselves. I'll only add that a set of users has begun annotating the riffs in some thiese — Preceding unsigned comment added by SJActress (talk • contribs) 08:19, 7 May 2017 (UTC)