Talk:Republic of Artsakh

Flag of Azerbaijan SSR

It's anachronistic to use Azerbaijan SSR flag, instead of its flag during NKAO's dissolution. It is the same flag with current one with different shade. Either use the correct one, or remove it completely. Beshogur (talk) 15:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

It is anachronistic to just write "Azerbaijan" or use that Azeri flag. NKAO's "dissolution" was 26 November 1991, and Azerbaijan's independence is officially 26 December 1991, so the name and flag are incorrect and anachronistic. --KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:21, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Your edit is anachronistic. Azerbaijan used the name Republic of Azerbaijan and this flag right from 5 February 1991. Does not matter whether it's recognized later or not. Beshogur (talk) 11:56, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay but notice how the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic article still uses the 1952–1991 flag, because it is the flag most commonly associated with the republic, which is why it should be the flag used here as well. And I assume you are not opposed to adding SSR back because you did not comment on it? KhndzorUtogh (talk) 23:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, Supreme Soviet of Azerbaijan or rather the "Supreme Soviet of the Azerbaijan Republic" back then abolished the NKAO. So it's kinda tricky. I rather remove predecessor, successor thing. Here is the abolition law. Beshogur (talk) 01:38, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

The NKAO was was officially abolished on 26 November 1991, but Artsakh had declared independence on 2 September 1991 and had an official referendum on 10 December 1991 (Zürcher, p. 168), while also being a continuation of the same de facto government since 1989 (p. 165). --KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Well, the name/flag change of Azerbaijan occured on 5 February 1991. Beshogur (talk) 11:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

But that's not the flag the Flag of the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic infobox uses. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

The Republic of Artsakh declared independence on 2 September 1991 and held an official referendum on 10 December 1991. Azerbaijan declared independence on 18 October which became recognized when the USSR dissolved on 26 December. So by either metric, Azerbaijan SSR is not anachronistic. --KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

3O Response: Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Icons § Avoid flag icons in infoboxes and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Icons § Consistency is not paramount, remove the flags entirely. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 18:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Beshogur (talk) 14:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Should the parameter for flag icons be removed from Template:Infobox country then? KhndzorUtogh (talk) 21:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Considering they're in such a high-profile infobox, it's probably for a good reason. MOS is just a guideline, and it only says "avoid". You can take it up there if you want. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 11:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh: did it exist as a region during the 1918-1920 period

Quote: The predominantly Armenian-populated region of Nagorno-Karabakh was claimed by both the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic and the First Republic of Armenia when both countries became independent in 1918 after the fall of the Russian Empire.

Note: the period related to the quote obtains the 1918-1920 timeline.

Questions: Did the Nagorno-Karabakh region exist as an entity during the 1918-1920 period?

If yes, can anyone provide any reference to a region of "Nagorno-Karabakh" related to that period?

Can anyone provide the exact borders of the region (if it existed and was named "Nagorno-Karabakh")?

if the region of Nagorno-Karabakh did not officially exist during that period, how can one discuss whether it was predominantly populated by any of the ethnic groups? Hew Folly (talk) 19:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

"Region" is a generic and vague geographical term, and by its use often points to an area not being a geopolitical entity. If you are looking for a geopolitical entity, the Karabakh Council article covers that period, although the article's sourcing is poor. CMD (talk) 02:09, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. The map of the " 1918-1920 Karabakh Council" is not only unsourced but also falsified. You can check my explanation.Talk:Karabakh Council#A strange 1918-1920 map with a town that did not exist back then Hew Folly (talk) 21:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

In 1918-1920 Nagorno-Karabakh had all the trappings of statehood, including the army and the legitimate authority.In response to the peace initiatives of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh, Azerbaijani Democratic Republic launched a military action https://usa.mfa.am/en/karabagh#:~:text=In%201918%2D1920%20Nagorno%2DKarabakh,Republic%20launched%20a%20military%20action. UnsungHistory (talk) 17:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The Armenian Embassy is not a reliable source. Hew Folly (talk) 19:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

TFD

Republic of Artsakh#:~:text=Artsakh Street in Watertown, Massachusetts in 2011

This is trivial, and shouldn't be included in the article. There are also no mentions of the street on neither the Watertown article or the Artsakh article excluding the trivial image on the Arksakh article, with no points provided to its significance. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 18:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't make sense in the History section, assumed from the description it would be in Foreign relations. CMD (talk) 01:54, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Coat of arms' years of usage

Just like the flag, the coat of arms of the Republic of Artsakh wasn't immediately adopted in 1991 in the midst of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, similarly to how many other post-Soviet recognized or unrecognized states did not come up with their own non-communist symbols until as late as 1994 (e.g. Tajikistan). The description under the image of the coat of arms explicitly states 17 November 1992 as the date of adoption, hence that would make total sense to mention it in the infobox just as this information is mentioned on every historical state/entity article. CapLiber (talk) 04:38, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Should Artsakh be labeled as a government-in-exile?

Apparently, Artsakh has a government-in-exile.

Should the article be changed to reflect that? Kxeon (talk) 19:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

if there's RS, then yes. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 19:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Its not in exile, Pashinyan has commented on this, that there is only 1 govt present in Armenia, and that Armenia is not and will not be hosting a Govt in exile. You guys are just doing vandalism on an article for which there was consensus for 6-7 months. What is prompting this change in July? nothing new has taken place. Midgetman433 (talk) 00:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Hmm.. even though Pashinyan says that there can only be one government in Armenia which is Armenia, Artsakh apparently continued on anyway still in Armenia? [1]
We can tell because they're being cracked down on. So the Armenian president seems to not want a Artsakh government-in-exile in Armenia, but they do it anyway it seems.
I wonder, does this count? I mean, Artsakh IS being cracked down on, and it's leaders being arrested, but the government still exists.
Now it seems like the question has turned kinda from: "Should Artsakh be labeled as a government-in-exile?", to "If a government doesn't want a government-in-exile to exist in their country and they stay, does it count?"
Considering the government-in-exile still exists, I personally believe that it does count as a government-in-exile. Even if it's unwanted by the government.
And as for the timing, I remembered Artsakh's existance and decided to look into it a little to see if they had a government-in-exile. And so that lead to this.
(I definitely have the feeling you'll say something about underresearch, but I actually did know about the fact that Pashinyan commented on it. But the government-in-exile still existed in my eyes. I guess I might have been too bold?) Kxeon (talk) 02:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

A government-in-exile existing does not mean the state exists, this article is not just about the government. Government of Artsakh may be a more relevant page for this information. CMD (talk) 02:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Alrighty. Should I at least change the infobox to make sure people at least know about the government-in-exile, and re-add that little part saying they were in-exile in Yerevan back to the top? Kxeon (talk) 11:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think there is due weight for the lead, including the infobox. Is there a reason you did not add it into the body? CMD (talk) 11:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I felt the fact that it was a government-in-exile was pretty important information, so I added it to the top of the page and the infobox. Not the tippy top, but rather, at the lead and in the infobox. I took the little exile thing from the BNR. Chechnya also does this, but the exile thing is lower. They still put it in the infobox. Granted, the Ukrainian People's Republic's page doesn't do this but instead leaves a note saying they were in exile up until 1992.However that page also has a section for it's exile too... So then, it can either be at "2023 Azerbaijani offensive, exodus, and dissolution", adding exile to it to make "2023 Azerbaijani offensive, exodus, and dissolution", and we put a little note saying they were in exile since 2023 at their lifespan, or we put it at the head and change the dates to say that it is still alive. Or change the dates to say what it had said before when I changed it last time; "1991-2023, In exile: 2023-present"

Oh, by the way, we still need to change the status of Artsakh in the infobox for all of the solutions I could think of, to say that it is in exile and has been since 2023. Kxeon (talk) 11:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Artsakh is not in exile, there is a government-in-exile. Artsakh as a state was conquered in 2023. I haven't seen any source treat it in the way you suggest as a still-continuing entity, let alone it being a common treatment. CMD (talk) 12:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I wonder if you misunderstood the part saying to change the status of it to in exile. I thought you would interpret it as "government-in-exile"...
One of us is misunderstanding something here. Either you're misunderstanding me by interpreting it as Artsakh in-exile instead of Artsakh government-in-exile, or I'm misunderstanding you by misinterpreting your words and your interpretation of my comment. Kxeon (talk) 12:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

You said "to change the status of Artsakh in the infobox...to say that it is in exile". I don't think it makes sense to say Artsakh is in exile, nor have I seen sources to that point. CMD (talk) 12:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree. There are no sources that a govt in exile has been officially declared. And one of the reason for this is that Armenian intelligence services(they visited Samvel Shahramanyan according to reports) and Govt officials rejected the idea, to the point where they confiscated property and warned of arrests if such an attempt was made.

The authorities of the breakaway state are treated as private citizens by the Govt of Armenia, not govt officials of a state that is being hosted. Midgetman433 (talk) 13:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)