Talk:Ford Festiva

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As far as I know, the first generation Festiva was only built by Mazda and Kia - and never Ford in the US. Could someone comfirm this? --Zilog Jones 03:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe this is correct, but I can't recall any reliable source for it. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 04:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, is it true to believe they were all built by Mazda until 1992? I know Mazda stopped building them in 1992, but I'm not sure exactly when Kia started. --Zilog Jones 17:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

My 1989 US Model Ford Festiva was "MFD. BY KIA MOTORS CO. FOR FORD MOTORS CO." according to the sticker in the drivers door area. I belive the Chilton's Manual also shows that Festiva/Aspires were always made by Kia for the US Market (including engines) if someone wants to look it up. It also starts with a K in the VIN for Korea. The Auto manuals also have Festiva and Aspire together (Haynes and Chilton's) as the same design, the Aspire was a completely different BODY, not new internal design. I think they should be merged. Christopher Poole 5 April 2006

It wasn't just a new body it was a new updated chassis. The driveline was the same.

No Festiva or Aspire was ever built in the United States, all were imported from Korea.

Festivas existed from 1988 to 1993 in the United States. The Aspire is a compltely different car than what is generally known as the Festiva (except in areas where it's referred to as the Festiva Trio) and thusly there's no point in merging the article. 199.218.242.62 17:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, the top picture is of an Aspire, which is basically a newer festiva, but not the same production line. Festiva stopped in 1993. I own a ford festiva, and in answer to the kia question, yes, it says on the door panel that the ENGINE is made by Kia Motors...

All American Ford Festivas & Aspires were made in Korea by Kia with Mazda B3 1.3L engines. Ford was part owner of Kia at the time. The Aspire is a second generation Festiva and the Kia Rio is the third generation (up to 2005). Ford simply renamed the newly redesigned car the Aspire in America although they still used the Festiva name elsewhere. Kia is now owned by Hyundai and no longer builds cars for Ford or Mazda, which is still owned by Ford. Also, Kia still built and sold the original Festiva as the Kia Pride until the year 2000.

As far as the United States and Canada, the Ford Aspire is a different car and needs a separate entry from the Festiva. But in other English speaking countries such as Australia a Ford Aspire is in fact a Ford Festiva so there is going to be overlap in the articles.

Does anyone know if the car was ever built in Japan then? It seems to have been sold there since 1986 anyway --Zilog Jones 17:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

From what I have read Japaneese Festivas and Mazda 121 were produced by Mazda in Japan. Most of the rest of the world Festiva/Pride were produced by Kia in Korea --Christopher Poole 28 April 2006

In Chilton Manuals, the Festiva (body and engine) are installed by Kia. However, the engine has certain parts that are built by Mazda then shipped to kia to be assembled in the car. the entire body of the car (its frame) is built by kia. In contrast to the Aspire, the entire engine is built and manufactured by kia along with its body. Design for the Aspire was also created by kia; not mazda.

In Australia, the last models were known as Ford Festiva Trio and had DOHC 1.5L engines with MPI replacing the TBI SOHC 1.3L models. I believe this was to comply with more stringent EC regulations (?). The bodies and trim appear identical. 203.39.81.92 (talk) 09:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually the article is incorrect in stating that Mazda built all the RHD models. They made the first generation which was basically identical to the Mazda 121 sold in Australia. When the Mazda 121 went to the 'bubble' shape, they continued to import the old 'square box' model, rebadging it as the Festiva first generation, also bringing out a four door model. The second generation Festiva was always a Kia as far as I know see used car review: http://www.rentalpath.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=9407&vf=18 My daughter in law owns a mark 1 four door and my son has just bought a mark 2 two door, which is definitely a Kia. Ford lost the model in the early 90s when Kia (who had been purchased by Hyundai in 1998 - see Wiki article on Kia) started to sell the Rio in the Australian market and Ford had to basically walk away from the small car market in Australia until they started importing the more expensive Fiesta from Spain/Germany. As a stopgap they brought out the Ka to Australia which was a total flop --MichaelGG (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion over the origins of this car. As I understand it, the WA Festiva (the first, boxy model) was a Mazda Demio car made under licence By Kia Motors in Korea. None were made in Japan, and none were made by Mazda. The second model, which was called the Aspire in North America, and the Festiva in Australasia, was jointly developed by Ford and Kia Motors. Both of these models had throttle-body injection or multipoint injection - none had a carburetor, which probably wouldn't have met the EC regulations (particularly in USA). The Kia Rio was a completely new car developed by Kia, and was never going to be sold by Ford. And the Ford Ka was not really a 'flop' since it was only available as a 3 door manual, which limited its appeal.203.39.81.92 (talk) 04:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe that is true. The 1st gen Ford Festiva was never known as a Demio (the 3rd gen "Festiva Mini Wagon" in Japan was a rebadged Demio, but that wasn't until 1996), and all Festiva/Mazda 121 exports to Europe, Australia and NZ were built in Japan by Mazda from 1986 (alongside production in South Korea by Kia) until the launch of the Autozam Revue in 1991. After that, all Mazda 121 markets saw the introduction of the rebadged Revue, while Ford Festiva production continued only in South Korea - even late Japanese market 1st gen Fesitvas came from Kia as sales continued there until 1993 when the new design (aka Aspire/Kia Avella) was introduced. It also seems all Japanese market models except for the GT-X had carburettors ([1], not sure how reliable that site is though). Carbs weren't a problem in the EU until Euro 1 became standard in 1993, though saying that apparently the Kia Pride sold in the UK still had carbs (1.1 and 1.3) according to my November 1993 What Car magazine. --Zilog Jones (talk) 21:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

That's just wrong. All Ford Festivas sold in Australia were made in Korea. All Mazda 121s (which were sold concurrently) were made in Japan.

The Festiva is a Mazda made under licence by Kia, not as this article seems to imply, a Ford which was also made by Mazda.

The Festiva was not sold in Europe.203.26.122.12 (talk) 06:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The Ford Festiva was launched in Japan in 1986 for sale in Ford Japan's Autorama dealer network. Just like the Ford Lasers, Ford Telstars and other indigenous Fords sold in Japan, this was built by Mazda in Japan. According to that Autorama page, Mazda only built 3-door hatchbacks and the 5-door and saloon Ford Festivas sold in Japan were built by Kia. This would make sense as the Japanese built Mazda 121s sold in Europe were only 3-door models as well. I didn't mean to suggest the Festiva was sold in Europe, I know this is not the case (outside of used Japanese imports in RHD markets).

So, to clarify (note: not "model years"):

• 1986: Ford Festiva launched in Japan, built in Japan, sold in Japan. 3-door hatchbacks only.
• 1987: Kia production started, sold as Kia Pride locally and Ford Festiva for export markets which didn't have the Fiesta (Australia, North America, etc.)
• 1988: Japanese-built Mazda 121 launched for European and possibly other markets which have the Fiesta, 3-door only.
• At some stage 5-door and 4-door variants were introduced, but only produced by Kia. These were sold as Kia Prides and Ford Festivas in all markets (incl. Japan, no 4-door in North America AFAIK), but never Mazda 121s.
• 1991: Festiva-based Mazda 121 dropped in Europe for rebadged Review, Kia Pride launched in Europe.
• 1993: Korean-built Kia Avella-based model replaces Festiva in Japan and Oceania as Festiva, and as Aspire in NA. I'm not sure if Japanese production of 3-door models continued until 1993 or stopped when the Revue was introduced.

I still know nothing about South American and other markets, apparently there was production of the first gen in Venezuela and elsewhere.--Zilog Jones (talk) 13:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I have attempted to clarify the background of the first generation car. At the same time, I have also merged Kia Pride and Kia Avella into this article, although the Iranian models still have their own articles. OSX (talk • contributions) 06:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Overhaul

I Gave this article a complete overhaul. Karrmann 21:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed "the Yugo quickly fell due to alleged reliability problems, and that left the Festiva nearly monopolizing the market, with the 4 door Dodge Omni being its only real competition, until the introduction of the aerodynamically styled Geo Metro in 1989" because it's not really true. The Festiva had lots of competition, lots of automakers had a small subcompact car in the class of the Festiva, ie Sprint, Tercel, Colt, Micra, Justy. The Geo Metro is just another name for the Chevy Sprint, which was sold from 1985. Edrigu 18:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Mazda 121 DA

Copied from the edit summary of the 09:25, 17 February 2011 revision to Ford Festiva: I do not think this car was ever referred to as "DB" (most likely an error in the GoAuto source). "DB" refers to the "bubble" Mazda 121 (Autozam Revue). OSX (talk • contributions) 09:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:OSX: I agree that the "DB" quote on that webpage is wrong - it doesn't seem very reliable altogether. AFAIK and as far as I can tell, all Mazda 121/Ford Festivas were built in Korea and never in Japan. Unless you have contrary information I am going to go ahead and change it. Best,  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I personally find GoAuto to be one of the most reliable and neutral automotive websites around; that said, it is not error-free. I am pretty certain that the Australian-delivered 121s were Japanese-sourced. None of the articles on the internet make mention of this (except the GoAuto example and the dubious fordfestiva.com website), but most references to the Festiva point out its Korean origin. The reason why Japan is not being mentioned is because Mazda is a Japanese brand, so Japanese origin is assumed. In Australia, just about every review/article about a Japanese car made in Thailand makes mention of this. The same journalists don't do the same for Japanese-built Japanese cars. OSX (talk • contributions) 10:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Italian Quattroruote from 1990 states the following:

Mazda 121: Vettura prodotta da: KIA - Denominazione per il mercato giapponese: Ford Festiva - Presentazione modello origine: 10/1985

LHD Festiva β in Japan

However, this is not the clearest statement ever. Also, the Japanese Festiva page mentions assembly in both Japan and Korea and restates that only the four- and five-door Festivas were brought over from Korea. Then I realized that these versions (and only these) were sold with LHD in Japan, which makes the entire riddle clear: LHDs were all built in Korea, RHDs in Japan, until the Japanese production lines were switched over to the Revue in late 1990. Kia began exporting Prides to the UK in early 1991, so this would all makes sense. Too bad this probably constitutes original research... also, this would mean that UK market Mazda 121s were built in Japan, but European market 121s were Korean? Could this perhaps be verified?  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 18:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Mr.choppers, I'm impressed. Now in your defence, there are two types of original research:

1. Objective: essentially the synthesis of existing verified facts.
2. Subjective: based on a bunch of assumptions and opinions of one or a few individual editors.

This LHD and RHD synthesis falls neatly into the "objective" category, but if we could gather as many supporting references as possible, this wouldn't be so bad. Unless you are planning to get this article to good or featured status, it doesn't really matter all that much. An example of "subjective" original research (with added dramatisation for fun) would be, "Vehicle X has been said to be an unreliable car. This is probably a consequence of almost all being sold new to rental companies where they would have been continually redlined by almost every single driver for two whole years causing severe engine damage."

Australian DA series 121s were three-door hatchbacks only. 121s remained in production until February 1991, but the Festiva did not arrive in Australia until October of the same year (eight months for Mazda to transfer the tooling to Kia?). The 1991 Australian-specification Festiva (South Korean) was five-door only until the January 1993 introduction of the Kia-produced three-door. Unfortunately, I can't find anything to confirm Japanese assembly of the UK-bound 121s. OSX (talk • contributions) 06:53, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I was quite excited at my very minor eureka moment. Now all I need is the correct old issue of CAR magazine to provide the missing evidence. One question - were Aussie 121 produced or available until February 1991? I would have assumed that Japanese production ended with the October introduction of the Revue, with transfer of tooling commencing immediately - UK sales of RHD Prides began in early 1991 AFAIK. In any case, being excited about having been in the wrong (I was originally convinced that the DA Mazdas had never ever been built in Japan) is a good feeling indeed, no matter how narrow and irrelevant the subject.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 07:08, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

The February 1991 date was when the car was discontinued [2]. According to Red Book, 1990 was the final year of production. There are two types of plates fitted to Australian-delivered cars—one is the build plate that is attached at the factory at the time of production—the other is an ADR compliance plate fitted when the car is delivered to the dealership. From what I can gather, compliance plates reflect the release and end dates (March 1987 and February 1991, respectively). You can read more about the these plates at Carsguide. It usually takes about two months for any new models to reach Australian dealerships from Japan, so 121 production would have most likely started in January 1987. OSX (talk • contributions) 08:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, good. Combine all of this with the growing inventories that usually occur towards the end of a model's life, and I am confident that no RHD Mazda DAs were built in Japan after the October 1990 introduction of the Autozam Revue. A four-month backlog for an export market is not unlikely, right? Also, are there any good books on Mazda Motor Corporation out there? I am tired of only reading about rotaries and Miatas.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 08:50, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure about any good Mazda books. The brand does not interest me enough (as a whole) to pursue such purchases. In general, finding books written on Asian cars is hard due to the language barrier. Holden on the other hand, has a plethora of great books written about their cars. For the last three generations of Commodore, Holden has granted a journalist the rights to publish a book on the entire development history of the car. Basically, the author signs a confidentially agreement about 12 months before the car is released, and they speak to all the engineers, designers, managers, et cetera and come up with a great book when the car is released. The details are insane. For example, the book published for the VE Commodore discusses at huge length how Holden made a huge internal fuss to reduce the official fuel consumption figure of the base model by 0.1 L/100 km to fall under the psychological 11.0 L/km barrier. Other matters discussed include trivialities such as the selection of paint colours and upholstery textile, so if you're into this sort of information, I am certain no other brand anywhere in the world can offer the amount that Holden does.

Concerning the Festiva, I remember reading somewhere (I think is was regarding the Chevrolet Camaro) that left-hand drive vehicles are considered prestigious in Japan. How prestigious can a Ford Festiva really be? Apparently, "in 1990, one of the most prestigious cars to own in Japan was a Honda NS-X exported to America under the Acura name, complete with left hand drive, and then re-imported into Japan which, correctly, drives on the left." OSX (talk • contributions) 09:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Yup. My mother has a (wealthy) friend who lives in Tokyo, who drives an LHD Jaguar - which makes zero sense, but image is important.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 17:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Errata

>"South Korean first generation sales began in 1987 under the name Kia Pride, assembled by Kia under license. Australasia and Europe received the first version between 1987 and 1991 as the "Mazda 121". After 1991, Australasian sales occurred under the "Ford Festiva" name, while European sales continued under the name "Kia Pride"."

Sigh. Why does this keep happening. The Mazda 121 was made by Mazda in Japan. The WA Festiva is a re-badged Kia Pride, which was a Mazda 121 made under licence from Mazda by Kia in South Korea. Ford had a supply agreement with Kia, not with Mazda.

The 121, which was made in Japan, was sold _concurrently_ with the Festiva.

>"South Korean first generation sales began in 1987 under the name Kia Pride, assembled by Kia under license. Australasia and Europe received the first version between 1987 and 1991 as the "Mazda 121". After 1991, Australasian sales occurred under the "Ford Festiva" name, while European sales continued under the name "Kia Pride".

The Mazda 121 was made in Japan, it is NOT a Kia. The Kia Pride was only the WA model, not the subsequent model.

>"The first generation Ford Festiva was designed by Mazda in Japan at the request of parent company Ford."

This is simply wrong. The Mazda 121 equivalent to the WA Festiva was manufactured and designed _entirely_ in Japan by Mazda. Kia began making the 121 under licence some time _after_ the 121 was released, initially for the domestic (South Korean) market. Then Ford signed a supply agreement with Kia, not Mazda.

Ford was NEVER the parent company of Mazda. They had no more than 30% of shares, which was a strategic holding to prevent Mazda being bought by some else, such as Toyota or GM. DiamondView98 (talk) 02:18, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Based on my research of this car a few years ago when writing the article, I gained the impression that Ford asked Mazda to design them a subcompact car because Ford of USA were clearly incapable of producing a small car at the time. To keep costs down further, Ford exploited their financial interest in Kia to have the Festiva manufactured in South Korea. In turn, Kia got the rights to sell the car as the Kia Pride in South Korea.

The Mazda 121 was only sold in Europe and Australia. Japan did not receive the 121—Japan received the Ford Festiva version just like the USA, but the Japanese Festiva was not imported from Korea (except the odd LHD sedan version). Initially, I think but am not 100 percent sure, LHD versions were made by Korea, and RHD versions by Mazda. After Mazda ended production in c. 1990, Kia tooled up for RHD production as well.

Once the Ford and Mazda versions went past their used by dates, Kia started offering the same model badged as Kia Pride in some export markets all the way up until 2000 when replaced by the Kia Rio. OSX (talk • contributions) 08:07, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

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