Talk:National Heritage List (Australia)

Notes

I want the list to look at little more like List of World Heritage Sites in China. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:17, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

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Dead links

None of the listings links in the article work. Peter Bell (talk) 05:28, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I have fixed them (they had consistently renamed the URLs) but with one exception. I could not fix #4 Old Great North Road. I checked on the Australian National Heritage website and their link to Old Great North Road is also broken. I have sent them an email pointing this out and hope I will get a reply with the updated URL, so I can add it here. So all but one should be fixed. Kerry (talk) 06:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Prompt and efficient response - well done! Peter Bell (talk) 03:38, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I got a reply to my email and the Govt department has fixed the problem and the link for Old Great North Road is now working again. So all listing links should be working again. Kerry (talk) 02:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

How many?

Based on text assertion of there being 119, i put that in as the total count into the table, as here:

State/territory	Number of places
Australian Capital Territory	5
New South Wales	35
Northern Territory	4
Queensland	13
South Australia	8
Tasmania	11
Victoria	32
Western Australia	15
Total	119

But in fact 119 is not the total of other numbers. Perhaps there are duplications, i.e. items that overlap boundaries? Then a row for duplications' subtraction needs to be included, with a footnote itemizing the ones that are duplicated. What about the several overseas ones? And the big table doesn't go up to 119, what gives with that? --Doncram (talk) 01:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

It think it's fair to say "it's complicated". This is what I have in my spreadsheet which was webscraped earlier this year from the Australia Heritage Database (117 entries, sorted below by State). Some of the national parks cross state boundaries so may be in more than one state, but the AHD lists only one state for it (e.g. Gondwana Rainforests of Australia is listed as NSW), which might be an underlying database limitation. It can be argued whether Norfolk Island and Lord Howe Island should or shouldn't be included NSW. Or what to do with shipwrecks, etc. There are 3 further listings with the status ("Within a listed place") See the 2nd table for these. The mapping between the National Heritage entries and Wikipedia articles tends not to be 1-to-1 either (take a look at Gondwana Rainforests as an example which fans out to many Wikipedia articles). In a word, messy! :-) Kerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

OfficialTitle	StreetAddress	Suburb	State
Australian Academy of Science Building	Gordon Street	Canberra City	ACT
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves	The Alpine Way	Thredbo Village	ACT
Australian War Memorial and the Memorial Parade	Anzac Parade	Campbell	ACT
High Court - National Gallery Precinct	Parkes Place	Parkes	ACT
Old Parliament House and Curtilage	King George Terrace	Parkes	ACT
Mawsons Huts and Mawsons Huts Historic Site		Dumont D'Urville Station	Australian Antarctic Territory
Heard and McDonald Islands		Heard and McDonald Islands	Heard and McDonald Islands
HMS Sirius Shipwreck		Kingston	Norfolk Island
Kingston and Arthurs Vale Historic Area	Quality Row	Kingston	Norfolk Island
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves	The Alpine Way	Thredbo Village	NSW
Bondi Beach	Campbell Parade	Bondi Beach	NSW
Brewarrina Aboriginal Fish Traps (Baiames Ngunnhu)	Doyle Street	Brewarrina	NSW
City of Broken Hill	Silver City Highway	Broken Hill	NSW
Cockatoo Island		Rozelle	NSW
Cyprus Hellene Club - Australian Hall	150-152 Elizabeth Street	Sydney	NSW
First Government House Site	41 Bridge Street	Sydney	NSW
Gondwana Rainforests of Australia		Lismore	NSW
Hyde Park Barracks	Macquarie Street	Sydney	NSW
Kamay Botany Bay: botanical collection sites	Captain Cook Drive	Kurnell	NSW
Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park, Lion, Long and Spectacle Island Nature Reserves	Ku-ring-gai Chase Road	Bobbin Head	NSW
Kurnell Peninsula Headland	Cape Solander Drive	Kurnell	NSW
Lord Howe Island Group		Lord Howe Island	NSW
Moree Baths and Swimming Pool	Anne Street	Moree	NSW
Myall Creek Massacre and Memorial Site	Bingara Delungra Road	Myall Creek via Bingara	NSW
North Head - Sydney	North Head Scenic Drive	Manly	NSW
Old Government House and the Government Domain	O'Connell Street	Parramatta	NSW
Old Great North Road	The Old Great Northern Road	Wisemans Ferry	NSW
Parramatta Female Factory and Institutions Precinct	Fleet Street	Parramatta	NSW
Royal National Park and Garawarra State Conservation Area	Sir Bertram Stevens Drive	Audley	NSW
Snowy Mountains Scheme	Snowy Mountains Highway	Cabramurra	NSW
Sydney Harbour Bridge	Bradfield Highway	Dawes Point - Milsons Point	NSW
Sydney Opera House	2 Circular Quay East	Sydney	NSW
The Greater Blue Mountains Area	Greater Western Highway	Katoomba	NSW
Warrumbungle National Park	John Renshaws Parkway	Coonabarabran	NSW
Willandra Lakes Region	Arumpo Mungo National Park Road	Robinvale	NSW
Hermannsburg Historic Precinct	Larapinta Drive	Hermannsburg	NT
Kakadu National Park	Arnhem Highway	Darwin	NT
Uluru - Kata Tjuta National Park	Lasseter Highway	Yulara	NT
Wave Hill Walk Off Route	Buchanan Highway	Kalkarindji	NT
Wurrwurrwuy		Yirrkala	NT
HMAS Sydney II and HSK Kormoran Shipwreck Sites		Carnarvon	off Western Australia
Australian Fossil Mammal Sites (Riversleigh)		Riversleigh via Gregory Downs	QLD
Dinosaur Stampede National Monument	Winton-Jundah Road	Winton	QLD
Fraser Island	Eurong Road	Eurong	QLD
Glass House Mountains National Landscape	Beerburrum Woodford Road	Beerburrum	QLD
Gondwana Rainforests of Australia		Lismore	QLD
Great Artesian Basin Springs: Elizabeth	Springvale Road	Warra	QLD
Great Barrier Reef		Townsville	QLD
Ngarrabullgan	Mount Mulligan Road	Dimbulah	QLD
QANTAS Hangar Longreach	Landsborough Highway	Longreach	QLD
Tree of Knowledge and curtilage	Oak Street	Barcaldine	QLD
Wet Tropics of Queensland		Cairns	QLD
Australian Cornish Mining Sites: Burra	Barrier Highway	Burra	SA
Australian Cornish Mining Sites: Moonta	Verran Terrace	Moonta	SA
Australian Fossil Mammal Sites (Naracoorte)		Naracoorte	SA
Ediacara Fossil Site - Nilpena		Parachilna	SA
Great Artesian Basin Springs: Witjira-Dalhousie		Dalhousie ruin via Oodnadatta	SA
Koonalda Cave	Old Eyre Highway	Cook	SA
South Australian Old and New Parliament Houses	North Terrace	Adelaide	SA
The Adelaide Park Lands and City Layout	South Terrace	Adelaide	SA
The Burke, Wills, King and Yandruwandha National Heritage Place	Birdsville Track	Innamincka	SA
Brickendon Estate	Woolmers Lane	Longford	TAS
Cascades Female Factory	8,16,18 Degraves Street	South Hobart	TAS
Cascades Female Factory Yard 4 North	Symes Street	South Hobart	TAS
Coal Mines Historic Site	Coal Mine Road	Saltwater River	TAS
Darlington Probation Station	French Farm Coastal Route	Darlington	TAS
Jordan River levee site	Andrew Street	Brighton	TAS
Macquarie Island		Hobart	TAS
Port Arthur Historic Site	Arthur Highway	Port Arthur	TAS
Recherche Bay (North East Peninsula) Area		Southport	TAS
Richmond Bridge	Bridge Street	Richmond	TAS
Tasmanian Wilderness		Strathgordon	TAS
Western Tasmania Aboriginal Cultural Landscape	Arthur River Road	Arthur River	TAS
Woolmers Estate	Woolmers Lane	Longford	TAS
Abbotsford Convent	1 St Heliers Street	Abbotsford	VIC
Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves	The Alpine Way	Thredbo Village	VIC
Bonegilla Migrant Camp - Block 19	76 Bonegilla Road	Bonegilla	VIC
Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape - Mt Eccles Lake Condah Area	Mt Eccles Road	Macarthur	VIC
Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape - Tyrendarra Area		Tyrendarra	VIC
Castlemaine Diggings National Heritage Park	Chewton Road	Castlemaine	VIC
Coranderrk	19 Barak Lane	Healesville	VIC
Echuca Wharf	52 Murray Esplanade	Echuca	VIC
Eureka Stockade Gardens	Eureka Street	Eureka	VIC
Flemington Racecourse	448 Epsom Road	Flemington	VIC
Flora Fossil Site - Yea	Limestone Road	Yea	VIC
Glenrowan Heritage Precinct	Siege Street	Glenrowan	VIC
Grampians National Park (Gariwerd)	Grampians Road	Halls Gap	VIC
Great Ocean Road and Scenic Environs	Great Ocean Road	Apollo Bay	VIC
High Court of Australia (former)	450 Little Bourke Street	Melbourne	VIC
HMVS Cerberus		Black Rock	VIC
ICI Building (former)	1-4 Nicholson Street	East Melbourne	VIC
Melbourne Cricket Ground	Brunton Avenue	Jolimont	VIC
Melbourne's Domain Parkland and Memorial Precinct	St Kilda Road	Melbourne	VIC
Mount William Stone Hatchet Quarry	Powells Track	Lancefield	VIC
Murtoa No 1 Grain Store	Wimmera Highway	Murtoa	VIC
Newman College	887 Swanston Street	Parkville	VIC
Point Cook Air Base	Aviation Road	Point Cook	VIC
Point Nepean Defence Sites and Quarantine Station Area	Defence Road	Portsea	VIC
Queen Victoria Market	Victoria Street	Melbourne	VIC
Rippon Lea House and Garden	192 Hotham Street	Elsternwick	VIC
Royal Exhibition Building National Historic Place	Victoria Street	Carlton	VIC
Sidney Myer Music Bowl	Linlithgow Avenue	Melbourne	VIC
Batavia Shipwreck Site and Survivor Camps Area 1629 - Houtman Abrolhos		Wallabi Group via Houtman Abrolhos	WA
Cheetup Rock Shelter		Esperance	WA
Dampier Archipelago (including Burrup Peninsula)	Karratha Dampier Road	Dampier	WA
Dirk Hartog Landing Site 1616 - Cape Inscription Area		Dirk Hartog Island	WA
Fitzgerald River National Park	South Coast Highway	Ravensthorpe	WA
Fremantle Prison (former)	1 The Terrace	Fremantle	WA
Goldfields Water Supply Scheme, Western Australia		Mundaring to Kalgoorlie	WA
Lesueur National Park	Coorow Green Head Road	Green Head	WA
Porongurup National Park	Mount Barker Porongurup Road	Mount Barker	WA
Purnululu National Park		Halls Creek	WA
Shark Bay, Western Australia	Denham Hamelin Road	Denham	WA
Stirling Range National Park	Chester Pass Road	Cranbrook	WA
The Ningaloo Coast	Ningaloo Road	Ningaloo	WA
The West Kimberley	Great Northern Highway	Broome	WA
Wilgie Mia Aboriginal Ochre Mine	Wilgie Mia Road	Wilgie Mia Aboriginal Reserve via Cue	WA

Within a listed place

OfficialTitle	StreetAddress	Suburb	State
Bondi Surf Pavilion	Queen Elizabeth Drive	Bondi Beach	NSW
Quarantine Station and Surrounds	Defence Road	Portsea	VIC
Wet Tropics World Heritage Area (Indigenous Values)		Cairns	QLD

As the editor who laid out the table initially and has added many of the new items, I may be able to answer some of your questions.

1. The reason the "big table" shows only 97 is because several items were listed as a parent group - Australian Alps, Australian Convict Sites, Gondwana Rainforests, Budj Bim etc. If consensus is to number them individually, happy to do that.
2. are not part of any state (or the two main territories of NT and ACT and should be listed separately in the table as "other territories" Macquarie Island is legally Tasmania and Lord Howe Island is legally NSW.

• Other than Australian Alps, Gondwana Forests and Convict Sites (which are "groupings" rather than individual sites) no site is shared between two states or territories.

Table should look like:

State/territory	Number of places
Australian Capital Territory	?
New South Wales	?
Northern Territory	?
Queensland	?
South Australia	?
Tasmania	?
Victoria	?
Western Australia	?
Other territories	?
Total	119

--User:Mattinbgn

References

Hey, glad you two are on the ball, like you were just waiting to respond to some comment here, waiting for a very long time.... :)

Seriously, I do think it is worth making the table make sense. And handling the "complications" of duplicates is not too hard, I say from seeing it done very elaborately in the system of list-articles of U.S. NRHP places, in the top-level List of RHPs and in the state-level ones like List of RHPs in MA, and all the way down. It is even handled elaborately in the non-mainspace worklist tracking at wp:NRHPPROGRESS where i wouldn't have bothered, myself. For this relatively short list (not 90,000!) it doesn't change very fast, can be handled, i.e. by putting in specific footnotes to a "duplications" line, with our best knowledge. I do think making the table go to 119 rather than 97, dropping or handling that grouping some other way, would be better. Do let's, please? I will try to make some edits reflecting both your comments here, please do step in to fix further. --Doncram (talk) 03:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Go for it. If my full spreadsheet is any use to you (that's just a couple of columns above), I can share it with you by some means (email, Google Drive, etc). Kerry (talk) 03:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Okay, i jumped ahead, trying to edit in the mainspace, at least setting up format for the duplications row and footnotes (but please understand I am sure the numbers are wrong for the moment.) But ... maybe ... it's complicated? I am confused about the Gondwana Rainforests and the Convict Sites items, say, are each of the rows within those groups a separate Heritage List listing? Maybe the overall Gondwana Rainforests spans across NSW and Qld, but maybe no individual item does? So maybe the summary table confusion will go away when the big table gets renumbered. It probably is good to keep some indication of the groupings, assuming those are indeed meaningful, in the big table. I do respect the creator and previous editors' good efforts here. --Doncram (talk) 04:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe the big table should count to 97 as it does, and maybe then the smaller table should also total to 97, rather than 119. The Gondwana Rainforest listing linked from several rows, seems to be one Heritage List listing, is that not correct? It is okay by me to say the truth is that there is one big listing in the table, but we happen to want to have smaller rows within that listing which link to components of that one listing. And I guess Gondwana Rainforest as a whole does span across NSW and Qld (and even some of its components do too), so there does need to be one note for a duplication about it. --Doncram (talk) 04:09, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Does it start to look like:

As of 28 September 2017, the Australian National Heritage List comprised 97 heritage places as follows:

State/territory	Number of places
Australian Capital Territory	3
New South Wales	22
Northern Territory	5
Queensland	12
South Australia	9
Tasmania	7
Victoria	27
Western Australia	16
Other territories	4
(duplicates):	(5)
Total:	97

References

In that, the 22 for NSW is a count of 22 distinct nos. in the big table, including G.Rainforest as one, and Queensland's 12 is a count of 12 distinct nos. also including G.Rainforest. And similarly for other overlaps.

Again I am not sure if these counts are right, or if they total up properly, but this may be close-ish? --Doncram (talk) 04:28, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

I think this does total up properly now, to 97.

Another possible change would be to combine the Gondana Rainforest rows into one big row spanning multiple subrows, and have just one number for it. That might interfere with sortability of the big table. I have never myself created a table like that. An example is List of governors' residences in the United States which has 3 subrows for Alabama for example, and is not sortable. I don't have a strong opinion about this; I mainly want to make the counts make sense for readers! --Doncram (talk) 04:51, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Never mind about "one big row with multiple subrows", y'all have that implemented already. I wasn't aware that this could be done and still be sorted, the way this splits the multiple subrows for "4", upon sorting, repeating the "4" for each one. However you did this is maybe something for me to try to take back to the List of governors' residences in the United States article and others....okay and I just did take it back, making that one's table sortable now too. Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 05:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

new proposal

Sorry I am slow to come up to speed here. Per the Australian Convict Sites article, it "is a World Heritage property consisting of 11 remnant penal sites originally built within the British Empire during the 18th and 19th centuries on fertile Australian coastal strips at Sydney, Tasmania, Norfolk Island, and Fremantle; now representing '...the best surviving examples of large-scale convict transportation and the colonial expansion of European powers through the presence and labour of convicts.' These properties were all individually included on the Australian National Heritage List before inclusion on the World Heritage list." [emphasis added]

And there seems to be 117 or 119 or so places officially reported by the government as constituting the "Australia's National Heritage List", as here (linked from this article).

So it seems to me the big table should number to 117 or 119 or whatever is the current number, not 97, and the small table should then conform to that. I think the commonality of the 11 penal sites making up one World Heritage Site listing should be indicated by color coding and/or by asterisks or other indications. I'm not saying this is the best example anywhere, but I am familiar with National Register of Historic Places listings in Syracuse, New York using both color-coding of the number column and using asterisk-type indications, supported by a key, to indicate commonalities of a couple types. Hmm, there are designated colors for World Heritage Sites set up in wikipedia already, in color schemes shown at wp:HSITES, and a color is there for Australia National Heritage List too. So why not use those to color the narrow first column of numbers, i.e. use the light brown for regular rows and the specific shade of yellow for the rows that are part of World Heritage Sites? I suppose one could use symbols to denote which WHS site applies, as done in the Syracuse list, for the several WHS specific sites. Or the current way of stating the WHS name in each row could suffice, without setting up symbols. Perhaps a separate narrow column could be used to indicate the WHS sites and to make the list sortable by these. From multiple rows being used for each of them, I am figuring that each of the following is a WHS site, is that right?: Australian Alps National Parks and Reserves, Australian Convict Sites, Australian Cornish Mining Sites, Australian Fossil Mammal Sites, Budj Bim National Heritage Landscape, Gondwana Rainforests of Australia. Another question which could be revisited is presentation order, should the list be presented in alphabetical order of Australia's names. Would it be okay for me to try to do some or all of this stuff? --Doncram (talk) 20:26, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Absolutely happy for you to go ahead with that proposal. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 00:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 2 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus (non-admin closure) Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 18:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Australian National Heritage List → National Heritage List (Australia) – Makes the name clearer - its name is not prefixed by "Australian". Laterthanyouthink (talk) 04:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support as per the nomination and WP:AT -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.