Talk:National Post Office (Rwanda)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Ethically ^(Yours) 16:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC) Ethically ^(Yours) 16:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

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Office national des postes → National Post Office (Rwanda) – WP:UE. The standard English name of the organisation, per its own website, is "National Post Office". Also that's what it's called in The New Times, the Rwandan English language newspaper.[1]  — Amakuru (talk) 18:18, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

• strong rename "Office national des postes" just means "National Post Office", and there's more than one, so I don't see why the Rwandan version is primary. "Office national des postes" should be a disambiguation page. Tellingly, the French Wikipedia uses fr:Office national des postes as the article for the one in Mali, not the one in Rwanda. -- 76.65.128.112 (talk) 22:02, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment according to the UN's UPU, [2] Rwanda's called "Rwanda Post" -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 03:57, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

• Rename to Iposito "Office national des postes" and "National Post Office" are just descriptive names not the organisation's actual name which is Iposito, so it should be called that. Their own website states that fact. The argument that the frwiki use "Office national des postes" for Mali is that they don't have an article for Rwanda is a red herring and when they do they have a Rwanda article they will likely need a dab page, but that is not our concern. ww2censor (talk) 00:01, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment we already have an article on the Malian one on En.Wiki, Office national des postes du Mali -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 00:28, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

  @Ww2censor: - Iposita (rather than "iposito") is actually just the Kinyarwanda language for "post" (and also by extension "post office", I believe). Hence what you're suggesting is really just switching from calling it "post office" in one foreign language to another. You're right that unlike the French, the Kinyarwanda term is sometimes used in English conversation, so it would be an improvement, but I'd still think the organisation's official English name (as clearly stated in the copyright at the bottom of their website), as well as what it's called in the English language press, would be a better title. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 14:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

  • Yeah, well that is not correct either. The Mali postal service is called "La Poste Du Mali" or "Poste Du Mali" not "Office national des postes du Mali" per their own website so that need renaming too. ww2censor (talk) 10:43, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

  • According to the UN's UPU, [3] Mali's is called "Office national des postes", which is probably it's official name -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 03:57, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

"Probably" is not a good enough argument. It carries no weight at all. The UPU is not "Iposita" who know what they call themselves. Going with the argument not to use the name of a postal service in their own language, when there is no official English version, then we had better change An Post to "National Post Office (Ireland)", Correios de Cabo Verde to "National Post Office (Cape Verde), Empresa de Correos de Bolivia to "National Post Office (Bolivia)", Česká pošta to "National Post Office (Czech Republic)", and let's not forget La Poste need to be changed to "National Post Office (France)", etc., for all the other countries that are not in the English language. You either have to change them all or none. It is just a silly concept from start to finish. Just use the name the organisation uses for itself. ww2censor (talk) 10:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

• According to the UN's UPU, France's is "La Poste" [4], Ireland's is "AN Post" [5], Cape Verde is not listed, Bolivia's is ECOBOL (Empresa de Correos de Bolivia) [6], Czechia's is Česká Pošta [7] -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 06:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The UN is not the definitive naming organisation the postal authority is, so we should use the name they call themselves not what someone else calls them. We use WP:COMMONNAME not name fabricated by others and that is the name the organisation uses. It's just that simple. 11:30, 9 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ww2censor (talk • contribs)

@Ww2censor: - you're mostly right, although you're misinterpreting WP:COMMONNAME slightly. We should not go by "the name they call themselves" but by what they are called in English language reliable sources. Per WP:OFFICIALNAME, these don't have to be the same things. So when assessing common name, both what they call themselves and what the UN calls them are factors to be taken into account, but neither can trump common usage in general.

Unfortunately (and this is a perennial problem with Rwanda topics) there are not a vast number of reliable sources to work with. The New Times (Rwanda's main English daily newspaper) shows 44 results for Iposita although most of those appear to be letters from readers (hence not valid as a reliable source); National Post Office, on the other hand, has only 16 results. But they all look like genuine articles written by the newspaper's staff. So given that "National Post Office" is the official English name (as denoted in the copyright notice at the bottom of their web page) and also the one favoured in articles within the newspaper, I believe that is still the most common name that we should be using. I would be happy to see any other evidence and be proved wrong though!  — Amakuru (talk) 12:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

• Support move to National Post Office (Rwanda). The current title Office national des postes should become a disambiguation page. Andrewa (talk) 17:30, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Redirects

Office national des postes du Rwanda & Office national des postes (Rwanda) should redirect here, considering the Malian one is Office national des postes du Mali and fr:Office national des postes -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 00:29, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Rwanda Post, per the UN [8] and i-Posita/iPosita/Iposita ; i-Posita Rwanda/iPosita Rwanda/Iposita Rwanda ; i-Posita (Rwanda)/iPosita (Rwanda)/Iposita (Rwanda) ; National Post Office (Rwanda) / National Post Office of Rwanda / Rwanda National Post Office should all redirect here. [9] if this isn't renamed to one of these choices. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 01:04, 10 January 2014 (UTC)