Talk:Dutch East Indies campaign

Dutch/Netherlands

I think it is odd that the bolded text in the first sentence says "Netherlands East Indies campaign" while the title says "Dutch East Indies campaign. Also, the text of the link to Dutch East Indies says "Netherlands East Indies" again, while that article also is titled with "Dutch". Is there some rational reason for this? If not, I will change it all to "Dutch". The Grand Rans (talk) 23:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

No rational reason, but it appears that the names are used interchangeably. Please change it for consistency. :) —Ed 17 ^{(Talk / Contribs)} 23:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Changed it. Sorry about the delay, I was on vacation (so to speak). The Grand Rans (talk) 18:49, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Misleading title

The article starts off by stating "The Dutch East Indies campaign of 1941–42 was the conquest of the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) by forces from the Empire of Japan in the early days of the Pacific Campaign of World War II" and yet the article talks about Borneo as if it were all part of the Dutch East Indies, mentioning places like Sandakan, Jesselton etc. Two thirds of Borneo was under Dutch control; one third - the areas of North Borneo, Labuan, Sarawak and Brunei were under British control. Surely this article, given its scope, should be renamed the East Indies campaign rather than the Dutch East Indies campaign? It is very misleading as it stands. 86.143.69.176 (talk) 09:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

By the way, apart from Brunei, those areas that were under British control went on to become part of Malaysia after independence. 86.143.69.176 (talk) 09:57, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Groen

The are a number of short form citations for Groen, e.g. "Groen(2010), pp. 8", but there is no biliography entry for Groen. Can one be supplied? If not the citations should be deleted.

Graeme374 (talk) 03:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, on evaluation, the numbers Groen supplies for both sides' KIA are impossibly low. Even if he did not factor in the Timor Campaign (which this website does, which means it should either be removed or have an addition added in), it appears to utterly discount Japanese naval casualties and those in major battles, or at least minimizes them (for instance, not counting in the severe human life losses of the naval campaigns caused by men like "Ship a Day" Helfrich. There are similar problems with the Western Allied KIA here. In light of this, we should either revise the other articles tobe in line with Groen, or remove Groen. 75.37.2.123 (talk) 20:44, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

This reference is probably the same one present in the Dutch East Indies article:

• Petra Groen, "Colonial warfare and military ethics in the Netherlands East Indies, 1816–1941," Journal of Genocide Research (2012) 14#3 pp 277-296

There's also another possible source:

• Petra Groen, "Militant response: The Dutch use of military force and the decolonization of the Dutch East Indies, 1945–50", The Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History (1993)

I would suggest checking into the two sources before dismissing the numbers. Binksternet (talk) 21:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest not assuming that I *didn't* check the numbers, as well as checking many, many other sources that do not agree with Groen in the least about Japanese casualties. Including the records of the KNIL, ABDA, and IJN/A themselves. 75.36.165.174 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:20, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Location Dutch/Netherland East Indies

I think the location of Dutch East Indies is in Indonesia or Nusantara, the title Dutch/Netherland east indies is only names of colony, not a location name in modern era... Nick~D (talk) 17:51, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

It was the colony being attacked, not the geographical location itself, nor the modern political construct that is Indonesia today. If you click on the link of NEI, you'll see the entire area that the Japanese sought. If you click on Indonesia, you see the nation that is there today. One is not the same as the other and are not interchangeable. Llammakey (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes I agree with Llammakey that Netherlands East Indies should be used here, not Indonesia. Anotherclown (talk) 23:09, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

yes, i agree with u... but for battle location, why not use address from modern era? why use address from old colony? Nick~D (talk) 01:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

we're not change the colony, only change the battle location to be same with present map, cause DEI on world map is no longer available at this time... Nick~D (talk) 02:10, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Because the Dutch were not fighting for Indonesia. They were fighting for their old colony. Llammakey (talk) 02:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

example: some student ask "where is location battle of java right now?", and you answer "the location is on java island, dutch east indies" hmmm.... cool answer... Nick~D (talk) 02:36, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

The word you're looking for is anachronism. We prefer to avoid them. :-) Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:08, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

And that student would learn about the history of the area a little more than just reading about a modern nation. That student would understand why the Dutch were involved, and why they were involved in the later independence movements in the region. That is the point of using time-sensitive links. To expand knowledge. Llammakey (talk) 10:28, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Dutch East Indies is Not Indonesia

but why the editor use "Dutch East Indies (indonesia)"... ? i think, better to erase "(indonesia)" word Doomblast (talk) 14:48, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

If they meant the same thing it would look like this: Dutch East Indies/Indonesia. Because Indonesia is in parentheses, it means that Indonesia was a smaller part of the larger area, the Dutch East Indies. I disagree with your assessment. Llammakey (talk) 02:16, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

This is a sockpuppet, Llammakey. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 08:17, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Ed. I'll know better for next time, since I seem to be discussing this a lot with sockpuppets these days. Llammakey (talk) 10:12, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified

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