Talk:New Atlantis

References In Modern Culture

Would it be worthwhile to add a section to include references to this work in modern culture. For instance, popular speculative fiction author Neal Stephenson's "New Atlantis" group in his novel The Diamond Age or the technology and society periodical The New Atlantis ?

Sailing, a simile for his time

Just removed the following paragraph:

In Bacon's time, the Age of Exploration by ship was common knowledge. For example, the actors of the time could declaim:

... There is a tide in the affairs of men Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries. ...

*Shakespeare, Julius Caesar (play) IV.iii, (c. 1599), first published 1623.

This paragraph, with its heading, seems to be suggesting that the element of the plot in which the protagonists sail to the new land was included by Bacon to act as a metaphor for scientific discovery and supports this by saying that sailing had been used as a metaphor elsewhere. Given that it is hard to imagine how Bacon could have not included sailing, I'd say this is speculation. If someone can find some scholarly analysis of the work which presents this view, or a quote from Bacon explicitly drawing the comparison then fine, cite it and quote it. Otherwise it's original research. --Spondoolicks 13:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Original research and a rewrite

I believe this article is in need of a complete rewrite. It seems like a work of completely original research. If it isn't, it was not written in such a way as to convey that the various interpretations presented here are not that of the author(s) of this article. I don't think it's really salvageable--it seems like a huge book report. RobertM525 (talk) 03:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Rather than just leaving it be, I've removed the bulk of the unsubstantiated, unencyclopedic content from the article. RobertM525 (talk) 01:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Some anonymous contributor recently added these paragraphs:

It is later revealed that the members of Salomon's House are responsible for a display which leads to the belief on Bensalem in Christianity. The scientists put on a huge display of light, which they have learned to control through science. From this light, those that journeyed out to see its cause found scriptures which lead them to believe in God. It is revealed that the scientists on the island create numerous scientific displays to keep the people of Bensalem deluded into believing in Christianity. It is also revealed that almost all forms of art and expression are forbidden in Bensalem. All forms of art, including paintings, sculptures, and music are locked away from public view and there is a strict ban on their creation.

While the first paragraph may be a reasonable interpretation of the text, the second is far from obvious. In any event these interpretations, though represented by this addition as uncontroversial, are at best controversial and unsubstantiated, so I am removing the addition. JKeck (talk) 18:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I added an "Interpretations" section for ideas about the meaning of the text. It is meant for interpretations that are reasonably documented from the text or other scholarly sources. JKeck (talk) 21:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Unfinished?

According to the edition I read, Bacon died before he finished it. This version was only about eight double-columned pages long, and he died in the same year. Is it true it was unfinished? And if so, we should mention that. In addition, I believe there was a book (God, I'd have to dig up Dictionary of Imaginary Places again) written in 1947 that featured a more in-depth description of Bensalem that we should mention. UPDATE: The book is called An Unknown Land and is by Viscount Samuel. I bought up the last copy and once I am done with it I'll post details on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.229.35 (talk) 00:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Lost

And ought there not to be mention of/links to the rip off/reworking call it what you will of Bacon's New Atlantis which is ...the TV series LOST ! 81.98.107.114 (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Salomon or Solomon??

This article uses two spellings for what is evidently the same thing: "Salomon's House" and "Solomon's House". The original document text says "Salomon's House". But there's a link in the article to another Wikipedia page titled "Solomon's House". Are these errors, or just variant spellings? Seems it needs to be resolved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.73.206.180 (talk) 17:42, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I updated Solomon's House article with a discussion of the spelling issue. JKeck (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Article title change

I do not understand the need for the change of the article's title to New Atlantis (Francis Bacon novel), when simply New Atlantis was brief and perfectly adequate. The previous set-up of including disambiguation at the top of the New Atlantis was much preferable to the awkwardness of mediating with a whole new and wholly unneeded disambiguation page.

There is only one New Atlantis. The magazine is named after that original. The New Atalantis has nothing to do with it. The separate disambiguation page is completely unnecessary. JKeck (talk) 21:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Shooting at the wrong cove!, I didn't change the article in the way you describe. If you look at the history all I changed was the "very" awkward dab naming that someone else placed there. Must admit reading your objections I would tend to agree with you. Good luck in your research etc. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

"Grammar" changes

"Governor" in the text is not capitalized. Joabin is referred to in the text as "the Jew" (a word that is not shameful) and it is clearly the Father of Salomon's House that they meet. On the latter two points, please see for example this paragraph from the text:

When the shew was past, the Jew said to me; "I shall not be able to attend you as I would, in regard of some charge the city hath laid upon me, for the entertaining of this great person." Three days after the Jew came to me again, and said; "Ye are happy men; for the Father of Salomon's House taketh knowledge of your being here, and commanded me to tell you that he will admit all your company to his presence, and have private conference with one of you, that ye shall choose: and for this hath appointed the next day after to-morrow. And because he meaneth to give you his blessing, he hath appointed it in the forenoon."

— Bacon, New Atlantis

Focus on the text. JKeck (talk) 19:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Social Rituals

I think that this article could benefit from a section on the social rituals that Bacon writes about.Atownnative (talk) 00:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

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The political point of the "New Atlantis" is that it presents unlimited power for the rule of "experts".

The political point of Sir Francis Bacon's book the "New Atlantis" is that there is rule over society by self appointed "experts" who can do anything they like. For example even telling the ordinary people that the Earth goes round the Sun is forbidden. Someone could read this entire article without finding out what the political point of the book the "New Atlantis" was - I have tried to correct that.2A02:C7D:B48D:1200:BC6F:8498:C1A1:69F1 (talk) 12:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Exactly. And this has led to today's society run by ethically challenged technocrats. This argument was developed powerfully over 40 years ago by Carolyn Merchant (p186): "In the New Atlantis lay the intellectual origins of the modern planned environments initiated by the technocratic movement of the late 1920s and 1930s, which envisioned totally artificial environments created by and for humans. ... The antithesis of holistic thinking, mechanism neglects the environmental consequences of synthetic products and the human consequences of artificial environments. It would seem that the creation of artificial products was one result of the Baconian drive toward control and power over nature..."