Talk:New wave of British heavy metal/GA1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

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Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 23:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I'll review this article. FunkMonk (talk) 23:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for picking up such a daunting task. Take all the time you need and I'll try to tag along as you proceed with the article's review. Lewismaster (talk) 12:01, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Cool, I've listened to my fair share of the relevant bands (only watched Motörhead live, though), so I should be adequate enough for the job... FunkMonk (talk) 12:54, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

• It seems many of the images are "size forced", but this should be removed.[1]

Done. I used the "upright" parameter only on one very large pic.

• "the only notable all-girl metal bands of that age." Has no source at the end of the sentence.

Added references

• I see a few more sentences that end without sources. I guess it is because the sources are used earlier in the same sentences, but I think it's best to keep them last... Or at least some source last.

I fixed three of them adding references. Another one is the intro to the Motörhead section where I summarize what is explained in the following and amply referenced paragraphs. I don't think that it needs additional references. The remaining four sentences without a terminal reference are lists of bands. In my opinion there is a conflict between accuracy, coherence and Wikipedia:Citation overkill here. I think that every band should have a source that justify their belonging to a particular list and I associated a reference (but they could be many more) to each band. If I had put the sources at the end of the sentences there would be a trail of up to nine references, which is deprecated by the MOS and would clutter up the article. I accept your suggestions to solve this little dilemma. Lewismaster (talk) 20:45, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, sorry for the delay, will continue tomorrow. FunkMonk (talk) 12:01, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

• "The United Kingdom in the second part of the 70s" I'd say "In the second part of the 1970s, the United Kingdom etc."

Done

• No need to abbreviate decades, better to spell them out, 1970s, 1980, etc.

OK, done

• "As consequence of the" As a consequence might sound better.

Done

• "reached the record of 3,224,715" Reached a record.

Trimmed down

• "The percentage of unemployed, especially among young people of the working class, was exceptionally high after a three-year-long period of economic recession,[2] when the politics of both Conservative and Labour Party governments had failed to find solutions for the social distress of large parts of the population." This sentence seems very long and complex, could perhaps be split somehow...

I split those sentences and arranged them differently.

• "is considered by most observers a consequence" The long sentence this is from seems to flow a bit weirdly, not sure if "by most observers" is really needed.

Well, the sources I reviewd agreed on this phenomenon. I'm not sure that every opinonist would be in agreement with this vision of the facts. I cut it anyway.

• "These punks were politically militant" I'd say self-proclaimed punks.

Done

• "stage practices like pogo" Say pogo-dancing? Otherwise it might be unclear what this is.

Done

• "when the crowd of young people" Crowd seems a bit specific for a mass-movement. Mass instead?

Ok with mass.

• "heavy metal, which provided fun, stress relief and the companionship of their peers, all things stripped away from them because of their unemployment." From this sentence, it seems these characteristics are in contrast to punk music?

Changed the sentence to avoid any misunderstanding

• "and reduced drastically their activities," Drastically reduced.

OK

• "interest of the media, focused on "the more fashionable" Which intead focused.

Done

• "were the same that had supported the objects of their rage in the recent past." You haven't mentioned that punk bands disliked the big rock groups prior to this,

Did they? I remember fans of Led Zeppelin among punk musicians. Anyway, I did not research punk bands so much, but focused on the press beacuse what critics and journalist wrote was important to heavy metal music and as background to the NWOBHM.

I'm not sure what the sentence means, then? What was their "rage" directed at? I know punks disliked prog-rock, at least. FunkMonk (talk) 09:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

You are right. The sentence is too confusing. It was about the music press raging against "old rock" bands, but I mixed in the fact that punk was supported by major labels. I removed it because it was not on topic and uninportant. Lewismaster (talk) 10:56, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

• "left space in the mid-70s to the rise of other bands" left space for the rise other bands in the mid-1970s.

Done

• "to the rise of other bands" Other rock bands?

And done

• "and also upcoming bands Thin Lizzy,[33] UFO[34] and Judas Priest,[35] had tangible success" Also had tangible success.

Done

• "Motörhead were a band founded in 1975" Clunky, I'd say "The band Motörhead was founded in 1975".

Changed

• "Ian 'Lemmy' Kilmister came from the space rock "formerly a member of".

changed

• "which divides the critics about its belonging to the New Wave of British Heavy Metal." I guess not only critics alone write about this issue?

Added fans

• "Some of them think that" Some of these believe.

Done

• "precursor and inspirer of" Inspiration for.

Done

• "the renunciation to technical virtuosity" to:of?

Bad English!! Corrected.

• "the stage with the punk band" Remove second the.

Done

• You are very inconsistent in whether you abbreviate the name New Wave of British Heavy Metal or not. You can abbreviate it at every mention after first occurrence after the intro.

Done

• The caption of the "Denim and Leather" sample could mention the date of the song.

Done

• "was a musical movement that involved" By this point in the text, the readers know it is a musical movement, so just remove the first part and say "involved".

OK

• "prevalent male sex and white skin" That is a pretty odd way of saying it. I'd just say "being prevalently male and white"

Rephrased

• "though the movement appears strongly homophobic." This seems a bit POV, elaborate?

Weinstein and Walser are adamant in describing the heavy metal subculture as homophobic. Other authors and artists concur (Bob Halford waited for more than 20 years for his coming out). I will check on the sources and rewrite the sentence.

• "Michael Schenker and Eddie Van Halen were the most celebrated young guitar heroes of the time." But what do they have to do with this genre?

I added them in reference to the previous sentence, when I mentioned guitar virtuosos. Probably redundant. Cut.

• "reflected the newly-found cohesion of the movement" What is meant by this?

That they made a fashion statement, all of them were dressed in a similar way, instead of the kimonos, jumpsuits or bell-bottom trousers sported in the prevoius decade.

• "had the same look of their fans" As their fans.

Done

• "A relevant exception was" Any exception is relevant, I'd say notable.

OK

• " to enrich their performances very early in their career." Perhaps mention how.

It was a stage prop at the beginning, then became a kind of mascot.

• "and a giant evolutionary step for the genre." Too hyperbolic.

Changed to important

• "and found a larger consensus in the British audience" Acceptance among?

Done

• "Songs about romance and lust were rare" Doesn't this contradict: "were in general fuelled by 'first pints, first shags"

Apparently no. The citation from Tucker says that the exuberance of youth is what encouraged the boys to form bands but it doesn't translate in lyrics about sex. The "youthful fantasy" prevails in the lyrics over other topics at least in the first years of the NWOBHM. Nothing in comparison with American hair metal bands...

• "Thin Lizzy, UFO and Judas Priest were already playing international arenas" If these are not considered part of the genre, what is the point of mentioning them like this?

As a way to frame the period and underline how the new bands were really new in comparison with what I called upcoming bands in the background section.

• "contended space in the venues to punk outfits" Contended for space with?

Done

• If you're considering taking this to FAC, I'd suggest listing this for copy-edit, some of the sentences are rather convoluted, and the order of words seem a bit odd to me at places, but since I'm not a native English speaker myself, I won't make too many suggestions in this regard.

It was always my intention to submit the script to the League of Copy-Editors. I wanted a review of the article before that step. The Peer Review gave me little feedback and, unfortunately, it took seven months to receive a GA review.

• For example, the placement of "also" here seems a bit non-English: "attitude and looks caused also heated rivalries" I'd say "also caused".

I'll check my "also"s

• "It caused also the birth" Likewise.

corrected

• "was their DIY attitude" Explain.

I believe that the following sentence explains the meaning.

• "He transformed his nights at the Bandwagon in The Heavy Metal" Into?

Done

• "term became soon" Soon became.

Done

• "to touring extensively the UK" In the UK.

corrected

• "promoted definitely the" Definitely promoted.

corrected

• "to relevant national phenomenon" To a.

corrected

• "Maiden's debut album" Easter egg links are discouraged, name the album.

corrected

• "and embarked in their first" On their first.

corrected

• "music magazines different from Sounds" Other than.

corrected

• "Sounds publisher cashed in for his support to the movement issuing in June 1981 the first number of Kerrang!" This sentence has a very non-English structure.

Changed sentence

• "albums entered in many foreign charts" You can remove "in".

corrected

• "Their assault to the British charts" Assault on, but in any case, this phrasing is way too hyperbolic for an encyclopaedia.

changed to "attempts to climb"

• "culminated with Iron Maiden's" Culminated in.

corrected

• "to declare finished the New Wave of British Heavy Metal" Finished should come last here.

corrected

• "Def Leppard remedied to that" No need for "to".

corrected

• "releasing at the beginning of 1983 Pyromania" Put the album name after "releasing".

corrected

• "an album which renounced to much of the aggressive sound of their older music for a more melodic and FM-friendly approach." Not sure what is meant here in the context of the sentence.

rearranged sentence

• "and the smart use of music videos" Loaded.

changed sentence

• "recently born MTV" Born is too informal. Launched would be better.

Done

• "and delivering a fatal blow to" Too hyperbolic.

changed sentence

• "became also very popular" Also became.

corrected

• "with the first arriving even to headline the" Oddly written, you can just say "with the former even headlining the".

Done

• "the demand of new performances." Demand for.

corrected

• "So the New Wave of British Heavy Metal experienced a" No need to start with "so".

OK

• "created no classic rock recording." Recordings?

corrected

• "today that hodgepodge of styles" Too informal, you can say mixture or some such.

I liked the word. Changed as suggested

• "with most notable exponents the German Helloween" I'd say "with the most notable exponents being".

corrected

• "and the American Manowar" Remove "and".

"with the other side of the pond" Way too informal. Say Atlantic.

corrected

• "were the first European countries which welcomed" The first other. The UK is in Europe too...

Right! Corrected.

• "were born between 1978" Formed.

corrected

• "which published also recordings" Also published. Seems "also" often gets in the wrong place here...

I need to dig out my grammar book...

• "commonly abbreviated in NWOBHM" Abbreviated as.

corrected

• "started in the late 1970s in the United Kingdom" I'd switch 1970s and UK, since this is preceded by "nationwide".

OK

• All the fixes look good to me now. Did you find anything more on the homophobia issue? After that is somehow addressed, I'm ready to pass. FunkMonk (talk) 11:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I expanded the part about homophobia and added a new source. I hope that it goes in the right direction... Lewismaster (talk) 14:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Great, I'll pass it now! You could change "not dissimilar from the attitude" to "not dissimilar to". FunkMonk (talk) 15:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your great review. This was a long work which finally reaches a conclusion. Lewismaster (talk) 18:52, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.