Talk:State Route 343 (New York−Connecticut)/GA1

GA Review

It is reasonably well written.

a (prose): ? ] b (MoS):?

• A. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article.

• Done.

• B. Several landmarks along the way include the Wassaic State Multiple Use Area on the 343/22 concurrency, Beekman County Park in Amenia and the Troutbeck Conference Center, a large center off of Route 343 in Leedsvile, a hamlet of Amenia is a long sentence and hard to read.

• Done.

• C. Can the road both intersect and become concurrent with.. (both? shouldn't it be either or) as in this statement... There, Route 343 then turns to the northeast and intersects with NY 22, the road it becomes concurrent with it.

• Yes, that wording is redundant. Will be fixed.
• Done

• D. IS Wassaic a county, town, hamlet? As in.... The two roads continue northward, intersecting with County Route 81 south of Wassaic

• See response to G. Will qualify all place names for clarity.

Thank you

Done

• E. Be consistent...it is just referred to as Millbrook Golf and Tennis Club, but latter the grammar says the Silo Ridge Country Club. Use the consistently or remove the before the naming of clubs consistently.

• That's because they are 2 different clubs at least 13 miles apart.

Sorry, yes I see that, what I was referring to was the word the use the word the before both clubs or don't use the word the.

Done

• F. Is Amenia a town, hamlet, county, what size nowadays? There is only one county listed in the infobox. It is listed that Leedsvile, a hamlet of Amenia, so does that make Amenia a county? Later in the article it is stated that it is the hamlet of Amenia. Is there more than one Amenia?

• Amenia is a town that contains several hamlets including Leedsville, Wassaic and same-named Amenia.

Ahh, I understand better now. It is not the same here (Canada) thanks for the clarification, we have different definitions for our towns/hamlets, and that could not occur here. Thank you very much.

• G. What is the pertinence of adding the section in another state...Connecticut Route 343?

• The case in this is because CT 343 is only 1.5 miles long and had the same history mainly as NY 343.

• H. Were factories or milk produced in the 1860's? There were also a few factories along the route, including one for the Borden's Eagle Brand Condensed Milk, which was produced in the 1860s

• The article, Borden Food Corporation proves it.

Excellent. This part wasn't about the reference or citation but rather the wording. Could it be changed so that it is clear that condensed mild was that which was produced, as it is written the last phrase relates back to the first about the factories.

Done - sentence has been rephrased for clarity.

• I The section which delves into the highway's number and route name changes is a tad hard to follow, if it could be re-written it would be good. It is accurate, but needed a couple of reads to understand what was being conveyed.

• Will try to work on this.

Thank you, I didn't have suggestions, but if anything is done, it is a big help

Done - designation subsection of History has been rewritten. Hopefully the new version is easier to understand. --Polaron | Talk 02:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• J Can the highway marker symbols and shields in the intersection route box be added to this article?

• This issue is currently being discussed at WT:USRD. Some people interpret the use of shields as decorative.

OK, will leave the verdict of this comment to be the result of the above discussion.

See indented replies above. --Polaron | Talk 03:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): ? b (focused):?

• A. As the AADT Annual average daily traffic, is supplied by reference 1, it would be a good inclusion.

• Will do.

Done - AADT and functional class information added at end of route description.

• B. The third citation shows 343 following along the old railroad grade. Which railway, this probably made it easier for the early horse grading crews to grade and pave the highway in the formative years.

• A bit unnecessary, don't you think?

OK, will leave this point... My rationale... If you look at Interstate 70 in Utah it talks of the red river cart trail precursor, as well as the rail precursor. And if you were member of a road construction gang in the days of horse and grader, the grading of the rail bed paralleling the road made life easier than breaking new grades and ground.... So just a historical construction connection item is all this point would be.

What you are saying is true and is indeed appropriate for a highway article. However, the portion that follows the old railroad grade is along the overlap of Route 343 with Route 22. Route 22 originally used Amenia Road (CR 81) on the other side of the Ten Mile River. Route 22 (including the overlapped portion of Route 343) was later relocated to use a newly constructed road utilizing the railroad grade. But this information is more appropriate for the history of Route 22 rather than here. --Polaron | Talk 03:00, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• C. The creation of Lake Amenia from the dam site 1922-1950 as well as Hurricane Diane probably would mean spring flooding would cause the dirt road to wash out several times before construction of roads after WWII. From Armenia Parks page citation. Is there more information about these early years, and the struggle to maintain transportation? Citation 5. Prior to the 1930s Lake Armenia district was known as a resort community, was there an increase in tourism? Citation 9

• This is covered in Beekman Park's article.

OK. I see that. This featured highway article M-35 (Michigan highway) gives a brief blurb of The Heritage Route / parks which was an important consideration for the tourism that the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) mentioned it in its press releases.

• D. It would be good to have an idea of the community this short highway serves...as early as 1710, the Armenia county was home to an amazing 450 residents. How many nowadays?

• Why? It's not necessary.

See comment below about roads and population/economy.

• E. The 1777 flour embargo along the route, which was transported by sleigh in exchange for salt may be an interesting inclusion pertaining to the traffic along the route in the early days.
• F. How long were the lead mines in use, and was this route a thoroughfare for folks traveling to work?
• G. General economy of the area. lead mining is mentioned, a sawmill, factories, the 1809-1819, Amenia mines, and Leedsville iron ore forging plants, Steelworks, sheep, cattle, wheat, Leedsville Woolen factory, buying an acre and a half of land for farming is mentioned in early history, Is farming the main economy today as well?

• Things like this are not used in road articles.

This featured highway article Interstate 70 in Utah includes how the road and economy affected each other. ie quote from the article ... Previously these were isolated farming communities, unaccustomed to the crime and other effects that a transcontinental highway can bring. This featured highway article speaks of the need of planning the construction of the highway in regards to accidents, speed limits and other considerations...[[Kansas Turnpike] This featured article Kansas Turnpike tells of the weight allowed on the highway, what the sections of highway were constructed of for the weights on the highway, and other highway or civil engineering considerations.

This featured article M62 motorway also speaks of how the highway did not serve the needs of the area...quote from that article...The route of the Lancashire-Yorkshire motorway was also considered inadequate as it failed to cater for several industrial towns in Yorkshire This article also discusses the construction problems which related to the geophysical nature of the terrain as well as the demographics and AADT which the highway serves, and how it got over its growing pains. This route M62 motorway also discusses that it is the M62 corridor an synonym for Rugby heartlands in the Impact upon culture section.

• H. History should include the first post office in the area was not until 1823, and post was delivered by hand, and the area had no stage coach. The 1805 beginnings of the Dutchess turnpike was named the shunpike Is the 343 the route historically referred to as the OBLONG road with mile boards to New York?

• The Shunpike being referred to is an even older road that is now Dutchess County Route 57. It became a way to avoid traveling on the Dutchess Turnpike when the turnpike was built. The Oblong road refers to Route 22 within Putnam and Dutchess counties.

Thank you. This then should not be included in this article, but rather in those articles.

• I. Citation 8 mentions old highway department signage near two historical places, the stone walls sheltering the 1750 Amenia burying ground and the remains of a tiny, red one-room Indian Rock Schoolhouse.
• J Citation 8 mentions that the Wassaic Developmental Center was used as a state training facility for 3500 mentally disabled, but now offers acres of land for hunting, hiking, camping and fishing grounds.

• Not necessary - This will eventually have its own article.

OK, but I am trying to imagine the highway traffic near a mentally disabled training facility VS the camp grounds, would either produce an increase or decrease in what type of vehicle.

As before ... rationale for my comments about travel on highway and culture.

• K Early travelers of the route would not view the Millbrook Golf and Country Club, but rather Willets Academy. Citation 8. When did the change take place for travelers, or visitors, users of this site.

• Not necessary, again - Again, will be covered in its own article.

• L Amenia's name, (Latin) Pleasant place, was first named Payne's Corners, Wassiac, or Washiac, or "land of difficult access," did any of the other places have other names?

• I think Dover Plains is its original name.

Just a query here...why was Wassiac the land of difficult access? What made it so hard to get there, and did the highway help?

The name Wassaic had been used by the Native Americans living there since before colonial times. It's most likely because of its location along a steep hill.

• M The image shows the highway as a 2 lane undivided highway, is the for the entire route? Can such be stated somewhere in the article. The image shows limited or no shoulders to the highway, is this for the entire route as well?

• This is impossible to answer until Google Street View gets to NY 343. I don't understand why NYSDOT doesn't post things like that.

My microsoft Streets and Tips map software also shows it as 2 lane.SriMesh | talk 01:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Understandable. Will suffice that this will be added when information is gleaned in this regards.

Satellite views appear to show two lanes throughout but I can't be sure.

For above points...The population and economy are items that the Department of highways and / or County Planning Commissions would take into account when deciding how to allocate money for road repair, construction, upgrades and improvements. The AADT is important in this regard, as if no one is using the highway why upgrade it, but if the AADT shifts from 500 to 5,000 vehicles per day because of a new tourism facility, mine, industry, it makes a huge difference to the budget which all of a sudden cannot do the repairs to a pot-holey road, or to change a highway from 2 lane to 4 lane or from undivided to divided if the AADT shifts from 5,000 to 50,000 per day and there are a bizzillion and two accidents occurring. The AADT increases with population increases and economy increases, and decreases if the factory goes bankrupt. Which is why population served and economy of a highways's area is important or why make the highway in the first place if it does nothing. If huge semi trucks travel the route or just cars and commuters to school and work or trucks hauling grain or ore, makes a difference to civil engineers planning the highway foundation, and how many weigh scales are on the route. Which is why I asked about the evolving economy, city/town sizes to see if lead / iron ore hauled to steelworks plants affected the roads, or did the rails do that there?

Will allow leniency in this regards till appropriate citations can be found, but keep an ear to the ground about how the highway affects the community and vice versa, as they go hand in hand. You can't have a resort, golf course, rugby stadium out in the middle of a field, with no highway access, no one could get to it. And similarily, a highway running merrily along with no where to go, no towns, no sites, no factories, no businesses, schools, would have nobody traveling along about it, the higher the economy/population, the more the traffic and what type of traffic. Engineers have to make a different road with weight allowances for semis and farm trucks than for family sedans. Kansas Turnpike

Images

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. Pass

Can image named Image:NY 343 after terminus.jpg be straightened out with horizontal horizon line and up and down trees and signage?

Neutral

It follows the neutral point of view policy. Pass

Stable

It is stable. Pass

References

It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (references): Pass b (citations to reliable sources):Pass c (OR): Pass

Can the google book references which are online transcriptions also have the page numbers added?

Overall

Overall: on hold

This is a nice piece of work, but it still has some shortcomings with respect to the good article criteria.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far.

Good luck improving the article SriMesh | talk 04:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Replied to comments above. Once the issues which can be addressed with citations available, which the editors have said can be done, will pass the article as it does follow along the featured NY articles which have been passed. Will watch to see if, in the future, additional information can be found about the highway planning and construction aspects regarding highway traffic volume and traffic types upon the route.

Pass to GA

Upon discussion, the article has been changed to encompass as many points as is possible with references and it covers the main issues of the highway. This GAN has passed, and this is now a good article! If you found this review helpful, please consider helping out a fellow editor by reviewing another good article nomination. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor, if you wish.

Cheers, ~~~~