Talk:No.6 Collaborations Project

Requested move 23 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There's consensus against move. Weak arguments against. (non-admin closure) – Ammarpad (talk) 15:17, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

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No. 6 Collaborations Project → No.6 Collaborations Project – There's no space. Unreal7 (talk) 18:17, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for not noticing the typo while creating the article. Pretty sure this qualifies as a non-controversial move and doesn’t require discussion. Pinging Anthony Appleyard to make the move and close this.—NØ 18:51, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose – I'm pretty sure that "No. 6" is the correct way to write it. JE98 (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – Per No. 5 Collaborations Project. Redthreadhx (talk) 21:55, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Forgive me if I’m missing something, but every source as well as the iTunes pre-order are going with No.6 Collaborations Project [1]. How does this have anything to do with his earlier EP which clearly did have the space [2]?—NØ 06:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree it should be "No.6", but here [3] it is obvious he named it after No.5 (note without space) and it is odd to put space in one and not put space in another when they are somehow related. Redthreadhx (talk) 10:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

But is "No.6" the proper format? From what I have seen in the past, there should be a space. JE98 (talk) 12:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I believe the space is the proper format. Nice4What (talk) 00:04, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support because it is the official name of the album, and the WP:COMMONNAME used in reliable sources [4] [5] [6]. Calidum 04:08, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support – the album title is clearly written as “No.6” on iTunes and on Sheeran’s post. There’s no “correct” way to write “No.” as far as I’m aware, so we should just go with the official version. Hayman30 (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support – the album title is clearly written as “No.6” on Apple Music. [7] -- BrandNew Jim Zhang (talk) 06:50, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Studio or compilation?

I'm not a big fan of what you've just done, MaranoFan. Three of his studio albums were titled with the symbols - plus, multiply and divide. It would only complete the pattern if his fourth album is titled "-" (subtract). With that said, I think it's unlikely this new project (No.6 Collaborations) is the fourth studio album. From what I know, MTV is a gossip entity and Rolling Stone is a reputable music publication. I think the latter is what we should go with here, given that there are not many sources calling this project a "studio album". Album itself is a vague term that could refer to other forms of musical collections such as EP, single, mixtape, etc. I think we should go with the Rolling Stone wording and call it a compilation album. That is, in fact, the way Ed Sheeran himself calls the project... and it makes sense because he is likely keeping the 4th studio album for the "subtract" title. KoopaLoopa (talk) 13:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

It’s not about what I have done though. Most sources are just calling it an "album", very few (just one?) have referred to it as a "compilation" album. This, by definition, is not eligible to be labelled as an EP or compilation album. EPs always have less than 10 tracks and comp. albums are compilations of previously released material. The only logical thing to call this is a "studio album" (since obviously all the tracks have been recorded in a studio).—NØ 13:15, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

This is clearly not a compilation, but I'm don't view it as an album either. Nevertheless, our opinions don't matter and we should rely on facts only. "Ed expressed himself as the follow-up to the No. 5 Collaborations Project. "Ed Sheeran has announced full details for his next album, the follow-up to ÷, which was the best-selling album in the world in 2017." → The Guardian, "The singer revealed all the artists on the 15-track LP" → Billboard, "Ed Sheeran Announces New Album No.6 Collaborations Project" → Spin. On top of that, MTV is not a gossip entity and RS is not some sort of bibble, Billboard, The Guardian and a bunch of other publications are as reliable as RS and to be honest, RS also says in the title "Ed Sheeran To Release ‘No.6 Collaborations Project’ Album in July". Furthermore, Atlantic Records, his label, also calls it an album ED SHEERAN UNVEILS BLOCKBUSTER TRACKLISTING FOR NO. 6 COLLABORATIONS PROJECT. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:45, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

MaranoFan, I was referring to your edit. There is no great dichotomy with the terms but the connection of "album" and "compilation album" is a subsetting. It is correct that the sources call it an album, but this does not necessarily negate its status as a compilation album. For example, it is called an album by most sources, but another source (a highly reputable one) refers to it with greater specific, that is "compilation". In the music industry, logic does not work very well. It's all about the marketing and promo. If the label decides to call a two-song project a studio album then that is what it is called. And I noticed that some Wikipedia articles follow that way as well, like Kanye West's 7-song project ("Ye"), which is referred to as a studio album instead of EP. MarioSoulTruthFan, agreed that it should follow the facts and not our opinions. But the facts are that those sources you cited call it an album and not a studio album. A compilation album is also an album and could also be an LP, and since we have a reliable source calling it a compilation album and quoting the artist himself, I think that is how the introduction of this article should refer to it. KoopaLoopa (talk) 15:19, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

That’s really not the same thing though. 15 tracks is way too much to fit the definition of Extended play, extended plays are literally defined based on their length. Also, for every one source (wrongly) calling this a compilation album, there are several calling it just album. For an example of an actual compilation album, see Journals from which 10 tracks were released before the album.—NØ 15:27, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

MaranoFan, my point is a compilation album is an album and while most sources don't call it that, they also don't call it a studio album. And since there is a good source to back up the 'compilation' wording (and even more:), there is not a good reason to not use it. For an analogy, an orange is a fruit and sources calling it a fruit is correct but one source calling it an orange is more precise, which is also correct. This is the case here. We do not have evidence that this project is a studio album but we do know it is a compilation album and that the fourth studio album is not this project. For a compromise, let's omit "fourth studio album" for now. What do you say?KoopaLoopa (talk) 15:51, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

You're not responding, MaranoFan, yet act as if I'm the one who's not discussing. And you're edit warring just as much so drop the righteous act. The consensus is clear that sources call it just an album, I'm fine with leaving out 'compilation' and you should be fine with leaving out 'studio' because sources don't call it that. Mario also seems to be ok with keeping studio out after they carefully reverted the IP without readding the word. That's 2 vs 1 here, consensus is against you. Cheers. KoopaLoopa (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

@KoopaLoopa: "At 15 songs, No. 6 should be lengthier than any of Sheeran's three studio albums..." Billboard, "Fans of Ed Sheeran have already been gifted with two tracks from his upcoming fourth studio album, No.6 Collaborations Project" MTV. A compilation album is like a Greatest Hits of...which this is not the case, it is a studio album because it was recorded in a or various studios. Or by what you're saying any studio album is a compilation since there are several songs in there, these songs were recorded for this project, not leftovers or for a future album. Sheeran had this idea since he remixed Perfect with Beyonce and Andrea Bocelli. All your sources are based on the same interview. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 19:14, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

MarioSoulTruthFan you're missing the point. KoopaLoopa (talk) 04:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Do you care to elaborate on how? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 15:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

MarioSoulTruthFan, I think we should follow the verifiability policy which states that all facts must be reliably sourced. Here, the "studio album" fact isn't reliably sourced, at least not by undisputed reputable publications. I don't consider MTV a reliable source because it has shown inconsistencies in their postings over the years and their way of doing things doesn't look up-to-standard to me. I don't disagree that, by literal definition, this project is a studio album... but as far as I know, in recent times, the lines are blurred because nowadays things are changing, like for example, as I said above about the Kanye West album. If this project is a studio album, all the sources would call it that but they haven't. So we should stick to the more generic term, just 'album'. I'm dropping the compilation thing because now I kinda agree with your comparing it to a Greatest Hits-type work and that there are insufficient sources to back it up. KoopaLoopa (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Sources almost never go out of their way to point out that a studio album is a studio album. The word "album" always automatically connotes "studio album" unless it's modified by something other than the term "studio": if it's a compilation, the sources will say "compilation album"; if it's an "EP", the sources will say "EP"; if it's a live album, the sources will say "live album"; but if it's a studio album, then nearly all sources will drop the modifier and just say "album". Sources do not have to use the phrase "studio album" to describe a studio album before we can call it a studio album — for non-studio albums, the modifiers "compilation" or "live" or "EP" have to be there in the music journalism, but for studio albums, the modifier "studio" is optional, because the term "album" automatically means "studio album" unless specified otherwise. And there's no such thing as an album that is not a compilation and not a live album and not an EP, but somehow still not a studio album either: a single-artist album, by definition, always has to be one of those four things, and there's no other kind of not-compilation not-live not-EP not-studio album that an artist can possibly make. Bearcat (talk) 13:21, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

• Note: User KoopaLoopa indefinitely blocked as sockpuppet of indef blocked user Zawl.—NØ 13:10, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

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• Billiekhalidfan, do not reinstate the compilation wording. This has been discussed, and three experienced editors concluded that this should be labelled a studio album with just one sockpuppet disagreeing.—NØ 09:19, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
• Pitchfork (website) calls the album a compilation. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 20:04, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

References

"Antisocial"

The whole album is being released on 12 July. Why has it been assumed that this post is announcing a single release instead of just a music video, when it makes no such specification?—NØ 10:49, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Well why would he only post one song and then write "Friday" if that specific song wasn’t a single? And if it was a video then that would likely be a single. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 11:37, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

• So he has explicitly called "Antisocial" a single in an Instagram post here, so I support listing it in the singles section now. As for "Best Part of Me" we need a source to explicitly call it a "promotional single" if we're going to call it that. Regards.—NØ 11:22, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

"Best Part of Me"

Every single from the album had a music video except "Best Part of Me". Sheeran is already teasing the next video for "Antisocial" so I doubt "Best Part of Me" will get a video and is probably a promotional single, not a single. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 14:39, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

To a certain extend I do agree and I feel "Blow" despite having a video is a promo single as well, as publications don't call it a single, rather song, track and so on. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 14:44, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

• Um, follow what reliable sources say. The only reason I started a section to discuss your inclusion of "Antisocial" as a single is because it’s purely assumption based. He’s teasing music videos for every song on the album so that’s hardly confirmation of anything. "Best Part of Me", meanwhile, was actually released before the album and given its own artwork.—NØ 15:07, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Here 1, 2, 3 and 4. Artwork and video means nothing, see The Weeken's "False Alarm". The Spin magazine also calls the previous ones singles, but these two "songs". Billboard, RS, Spin and NME are very reliable sources. But they might be singles given the context. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes the artwork means nothing. Every track on the album has its own artwork but they’re not singles. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 21:32, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

??? Only singles or promotional singles receive artworks. "Every track on the album has its own artwork" is a delusional lie. And Billiekhalidfan, since you were going around labelling "Kiss and Make Up" a single just a few days ago, you're probably not very knowledgeable on this topic in the first place.—NØ 08:41, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Here’s what’s more. Rolling Stone refers to the Abbey Road performance upload as a "live music video" twice in this article. So this song has a music video, an artwork, was released prior to the album, etc. So that leaves nothing to be discussed as this song has been given the full single treatment, just flopping does not mean fans can demand that it be excluded as a single. It has received everything that "Cross Me", "Beautiful People" and "Antisocial" did.—NØ 09:05, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Music video means nothing, see The Weeknd's "False Alarm"...it has everything but single treatment. The label confirmed, "I Don't Care", "Cross Me" and "Beautiful People" as singles. Not anything else, at least for now. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:47, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

"Blow" and "Best Part of Me" Order

Ed Sheeran and Atlantic Records listed "Blow" before "Best Part of Me". The order should be based off of this because Sheeran and his label intends for it to be listed this way.

Sources: [8] Scroll down and go to: "ED SHEERAN UNVEILS TWO ADDITIONAL TRACKS FROM HIS UPCOMING NO.6 COLLABORATIONS PROJECT" There is a document attached to it.

Go to Ed Sheeran's Facebook and Instagram posts about these two songs on July 4, 2019. He calls "Best Part of Me" the second track. EDIT: The numbered sources below is not from me. I don't know where those came from. CountyCountry (talk) 18:28, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. The two songs should be switched to match the order intended by his label. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 19:08, 27 October 2019 (UTC)