Talk:LGBT rights protests surrounding the 2014 Winter Olympics

Relevant content

This shows a lack of understanding over BRD as there was no discussion initiated here. In my edit summaries, I suggested that we keep this page to the immediately relevant where other information is available in further detail through wikilinked pages. Nothing is "censored" out, instead it avoids redundancy and POV-pushing to keep re-asserting news-like info all over the place.(Lihaas (talk) 14:17, 9 February 2014 (UTC)).

The onus is on you to initiate what you feel needs to be changed. But you apparently know that. Please don't allege that there are factual inaccuracies and then vaguely complain you didn't get your way. If there is something factually wrong in the article it should be fixed. What do you feel is factually inaccurate? Sportfan5000 (talk) 02:08, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. This is a stale discussion, Sportfan5000 is blocked, and the article is at a different title than it was when the request was made. Absolutely no prejudice against a new request, but this one is going nowhere. --BDD (talk) 17:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Olympic protests of Russian anti-gay laws → Protests against Russian LGBT propaganda laws at the 2014 Winter Olympics – Page move discussion required per WP:BRD; the current title is too judgemental per WP:TITLE; although an editor insists on the use of the term "anti-gay" in any article related to the controversy because it is most commonly used by sources, the proposed name is more neutral, and matches similar titles on other protest movements and other sub-articles of 2014 Winter Olympics. --Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC) ViperSnake151  Talk  22:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose, the nomination nailed it on the head here, the title should stay at Olympic protests of Russian anti-gay laws, because; these are Olympic-related protests, not just protest at the Olympics, which were forbidden, and the vast majority of sources, even many Russian sources, are that these are anti-gay laws, not anti-LGBT, this is a nuance that can be lost in the shuffle of political correctness but it does get to the core of the issue in that anti-gay more speaks to the homophobia of the law. And it is primarily young gay men that are the victims of homophobic violence in Russia, again, as supported by reliable sources. So WP:Commonname is exactly the reason the article should be at Olympic protests of Russian anti-gay laws. Sportfan5000 (talk) 22:51, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
• Comment. For similar reasons, I also think Olympic protests of Russian homosexuality laws‎ is also wildly inappropriate. Sportfan5000 (talk) 22:54, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

• How about surrounding? ViperSnake151  Talk  23:10, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

• I don't see it as improving clarity. Sportfan5000 (talk) 23:27, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Comment Note first that the article is actually a List or Timeline. And I don't know what an "Olympic protest" is? Sounds like a mega-protest. Neither title works. Much of the material is trivial. Some is not related to either of these suggested titles, like: "A Russian ninth-grade girl, from the Bryansk region, has been punished for violating the gay propaganda law, after she openly announced her "nontraditional sexual orientation." It is the first case of a Russian minor under the controversial law, and the incident will appear on her criminal record."

I can imagine a good article on "Russian anti-gay laws" with a section on protests or the Olympics. Using prose and some judgment about what to include. This isn't it.

I'd suggest ditching this article after making sure that important details are included Here: Concerns and controversies at the 2014 Winter Olympics#LGBT rights. I note that it includes material that does not occur at Sochi.Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 00:14, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I would actually support this idea. ViperSnake151  Talk  00:57, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

As the article covers current events, it's very much in process. And most of the timeline is related events, some are specific protests, others are how the laws are enforced, but it's original research for us to say that because A happened, B occurred. This the timeline format just, at least for now, presenting the details for the reader to decide what importance to place on any of it. The majority does not occur at Sochi, is exactly why we can't say at the Olympics, but instead Olympic-focussed. Placing this content on any other parent article would violate WP:Undue. I think once the Olympics have been over for at least several months we'll be more able to see all the events as a whole and make a more informed decision if some of the content needs to be moved to any other article. We've already had sharp disagreements about how much of the, and which, related protests to put into the main articles connected to this. There's not a one-size-fits-all solution. Sportfan5000 (talk) 08:10, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

• Comment While the current title is incorrect (is it the Olympics that are protesting?), I'm not sure the new title needs the word "propaganda" included. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
  • They are related to the Olympics being held in Russia, leveraging the international attention to the Olympics to highlight the anti-gay laws of the host country. Better wording choice would be welcome. i think a follow-up section will be what protests went forward, and what effects the protests have had, after the cameras and press are gone. Sportfan5000 (talk) 08:26, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
• BTW: I started Russian LGBT propaganda law; I'd recommend eventually redirecting this page to Russian LGBT propaganda law, given that I've pretty much reinterpreted much of the timeline as prose within the new article, and if there are concerns about this law in the lead-up to the 2018 FIFA World Cup, they can also be covered there. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:52, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
  • It's likely that the Olympic-focussed content would be undue compared to the rest of the reporting but between the parent article on LGBT rights in Russia, this one, and the new one, it's likely there will be some overlap. That does not necessitate the deletion of any of them. Sportfan5000 (talk) 08:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Again, you're the only one asserting that its undue. We need consensus. ViperSnake151  Talk  16:25, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
      • This is the first anyone, including me, has suggested that importing all the content to the new russian law article would be undue. In any case, i think it can all wait until the Games have finished and there is some hindsight from the media. Sportfan5000 (talk) 02:40, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Lots of mistakes

It seems at many points as though this article was hastily written in separate occasions each time a piece of relevant news came up. There are numerous obvious typography errors, many events are listed twice in the timeline (two come to mind: protest in front of Russian consulate, and Canadian cities flying the rainbow flag), the number of gay athletes in the games seems to increase as you read downwards. Just wanted to point these out for whoever is taking charge and writing this piece. Cheers, Floydian ^τ _¢ 20:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

It is very much a work in progress, and is added to as incidents are found. Thank you for pointing out where things need addressing. Sportfan5000 (talk) 03:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Bias

Isnt this article, including their sources, very biased? One of them is from a pro-gay suplement of an american newspaper.85.243.69.118 (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

That may be a reason to check for accuracy to a claim made, but not cause to add a shame tag to an entire article because you feel pro-gay sources might not be reliable enough. If you have any specific content that you dispute, we should definitely recheck it's accuracy. Sportfan5000 (talk) 03:40, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Opening ceremonies content

Can the article state this has an absolute truth? This seems at least very arguable and not assuming a NPOV. "(7 February 2014) The opening ceremonies had several aspects of gay pride and gay culture as part of the proceedings.[91] Germany's official uniforms were rainbow colored but the team has maintained they were designed before the Russian ban against gay propaganda took effect last year.[91][92] The ceremonies paid tribute to gay Russian artists, including composer Peter Tchaikovsky (1840-1893), Ukrainian-born Russian humorist, dramatist, and novelist Nikolai Gogol (1809-1852), filmmaker Sergei Eisenstein (1898-1948), ballet dancer Vaslav Nijinsky (1889-1950), and patron of arts, and founder of Ballets Russes, Sergei Diaghilev (1872-1929).[91][93][94] Also the Russian team marched into the ceremonies to a tune by Freddie Mercury, a gay man.[95]" How come "The opening ceremonies had several aspects of gay pride and gay culture as part of the proceedings"? Its true that several russian famous non-heterosexual people were honoured but they werent for their sexuality. Other thing, Sergei Eisenstein was possibly bisexual, like the Wikipedia entry about him states there is doubts about his sexual orientation, while Freddie Mercury, like all the Queen fans know, was bisexual and had a longtime relationship with a woman. Do you think to state these facts about these people meets the neutrality standards?85.243.69.118 (talk) 15:01, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah, yes, that should be fixed, it has been worked on in other places but should be amended here. Mainly it's an issue of attributing who is noting these aspects of gay culture were present. It will take a day or two to get caught up, but I will address it. Thank you for pointing it out. As to Mercury, I think you may have to see any women relationships as in context of not being comfortable being openly gay at the time. Sportfan5000 (talk) 16:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Olympic protests of Russian anti-gay laws

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Olympic protests of Russian anti-gay laws's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "independent1":

• From 2014 Winter Olympics opening ceremony: Jess Denham (7 February 2014). "Russian 'lesbian' duo t.A.T.u to perform at Sochi Olympics?". The Independent (London).
• From Barack Obama: Johnson, Wesley (November 5, 2008). "Change has come, says President-elect Obama". The Independent. London. Archived from the original on December 9, 2008. Retrieved November 5, 2008. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• From Munich massacre: Turnbull, Simon (27 January 2012). "Shaul Ladany: Still king of the road – Olympics". The Independent. Retrieved 25 February 2013.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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