Talk:Operation PBFortune

Sources

Given the subject, I'm a bit surprised to not see The Cold War: A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts by Jussi M. Hanhimäki and Odd Arne Westad, Wars of Latin America, 1948-1982: The Rise of the Guerrillas by René De La Pedraja, and Covert Action in the Cold War: US Policy, Intelligence and CIA Operations by James Callanan in the Sources. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:56, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

@Peacemaker67: Thanks for the tip. I did a sweep for sources when I rewrote this article, but I don't remember these specific ones. It is quite possible that I saw them and skipped them because they seemed not to add much detail. I looked at them again just now; the Callannan and Hanhimaki sources don't actually cover much that is not already in the article. The Pedraja source is more interesting, and I think the article will benefit from adding it: I'll get around to that soon. As a side note, you've clearly gone over the article once: would you consider doing a GA review for it? Cheers, Vanamonde (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Actually, after a second look, I think all three sources have some detail that is useful. Minor points, but worthy of inclusion and necessary nonetheless. Thanks. Vanamonde (talk) 13:49, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Sure, I'll come back and review in a bit. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:49, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

ACR

Hey Peacemaker67. I've been considering nominating this for A-class review, but haven't been through that process before. Since you reviewed this a while back, I'm wondering if you'd take a quick look at it and give me any suggestions. Cheers, Vanamonde (Talk) 05:00, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

G'day Vanamonde93, I reckon it has a good chance of passing A-Class as is. It is from a poorly-covered time and place on Wikipedia, and I reckon it would garner some interest from reviewers as a result. Just be prepared to re-examine your work critically and be open to improvements and I'm sure it will be a pleasant experience. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll nominate it soon. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Suggestions from Maury

Sorry, back. Not much left...

• "details of the plan had become too widely known." - I think the "too" should be removed.

  Done.

• "intervention, and so terminated the operation" - Acheson had authority to do this? Was the CIA under State at that time?

  The organizational history of the CIA is a big mess, and I'm not well-versed in the fine details. The sources are unequivocal in saying that Acheson was the one who made the decision, and that it was a decision, not a request; so...

• "respectively, felt threatened by Arévalo's reforms" - why? I can guess some reasons, but that's SYNning.

  I've added some material. I suspect your guesses would be accurate, the reasons are the obvious ones.

• "CIA's ability to move arms around Central America without the approval of the State Department" - this suggests the answer to the question above is "no".

  AFAIK, moving arms around was bread-and-butter stuff that the CIA could get away with; but to overthrow a government they needed approval from up above? The sources don't really address the fine points here, and I don't want to stray far from them.

• finally, what does the "PB" signify? It's also part of following missions, so I think it's more than just something to throw off the scent.

  "PB" was a geographical code for Guatemala; I cannot recall where I read that, but the sources don't make a big deal of it. I'll look, but it may take me a while...

Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

(Copied above from FAC, where it was posted after Laser Brain promoted the article, but before the bot archived the proceedings). Vanamonde (Talk) 22:32, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Maury, your comments were posted after the article was promoted, but I'll do my best to address them here anyway; copying them over in case some discussion is required. Best, Vanamonde (Talk) 22:32, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

I also wanted to know what PB meant. --Error (talk) 14:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Added. --Error (talk) 14:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

External links

I have removed the external link to "From Árbenz to Zelaya: Chiquita in Latin America – video report by Democracy Now!" as it has nothing to do with Operation PBFortune. After the 20 minute news report, there is a 10 minute interview with Nikolas Kozloff discussing the 2009 Honduran coup d'état that had just happened. Kozloff only briefly discussed the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état and he does not even mention Operation PBFortune. Here is the relevant section:

And we know that United Fruit Company played a very prominent role in the coup d’état against democratically elected President Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954. And, you know, after that, that ushered in a very turbulent period in Guatemalan history, rampant human rights abuses, genocide against the indigenous people of Guatemala. And so, Guatemala is only now recovering from that. But, you know, Chiquita has played a role in such countries as Guatemala and also Colombia, and now it maintains these ties to Covington, this law firm in Washington, to this day.

If you view the video or read the transcript, this report is more about Kozloff tying United Fruit Company/Chiquita Brands International to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton through a "revolving door of Washington insiders" that include Covington & Burling, John Negroponte, Mack McLarty, Lanny Davis, and Eric Holder... who was the US AG at the time of the report. This borders on conspiracy theory. If you think it should be reinstated, please explain why. -Location (talk) 15:14, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

What is the "PB" in PBFortune?

These letters were also in the other operation that actually toppled the leadership. What does "PB" stand for? Hires an editor (talk) 13:32, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Nevermind. It's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_cryptonym — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hires an editor (talk • contribs) 13:34, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

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