Talk:Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics of Romania

Recent edits

I've made some changes to these:

• If we're to change the name in the lead, then we should move the article too. I don't have any particular opinion on this - it depends on (rather limited) usage.
• I don't quite see the relevance of the name in Italian. Latin and Armenian would be more relevant.
• Alba Iulia had a bishop, not an archbishop, as of 1964.
• "From 1965 to 1991, while the existence of the ordinariate was ignored by the government, the Annuario Pontificio continued to list it, but mentioned nobody as its ordinary or even as its apostolic administator." - source?
• Minor fluctuations over a short time period can, if needed, be summarized in the text, but a table does seem like overkill. - Biruitorul ^Talk 21:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• I have now changed the name of the article to make it correspond to the content and even to the short name given in the Romanian Government site, which says that the ordinariate is for Armenian Catholics in Romania, not for Eastern Catholics in general, the vast majority of whom constitute the Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic.
• The name in Italian was that given in the Annuario Pontificio, the yearbook of the Holy See, which set up the ordinariate. The title given in the Annuario Pontificio can therefore be taken to be official. In the document (in Latin) by which the ordinariate was established, the apostolic constitution Solemni Conventione of 5 June 1930, it was described (rather than named) as an ordinariate for the Armenian faithful living in Romania: "7) Volumus denique ut fideles Armeni, qui in Romanica dicione morantur, quoad spirituale regimen sub iurisdictione sint Ordinarii ab Apostolica Sede eligendi, qui eidem immediate subiectus erit" ([1930%20-%20ocr.pdf Acta Apostolicae Sedis XXII (1930), p. 385).]
• Thanks.
• The successive editions of the Annuario Pontificio
• A table for comparing two years does seem excessive. It was just a greatly simplified copy of the comparison in table form given in the corresponding article in the Italian Wikipedia. The same information is now available on Catholic Hierarchy (which draws its information on the 2010 edition of the Annuario Pontificio, of which I have access to no edition later than 2008); it presents the information as concerning 2009 but, strictly speaking, the statistics are those of 31 December 2008, reported in the first half of 2009 and printed therefore only in the 2010 edition.

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Requested move 25 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics of Romania. There is consensus to move to the alternate suggested title. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 12:20, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

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Ordinariate for Catholics of Armenian Rite in Romania → Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics resident in Romania – The most recent official documentation out of the Vatican refers to the jurisdiction as the Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics resident in Romania in English. See this 2020 press release from the Holy See Press Office. Additionally, note that the Romanian-language name for the jurisdiction is Ordinariatul Armeano-Catolic, which translates roughly to "Armenian Catholic Ordinariate". Specifically, the word "rite" in the name appears to be an innovation of a user-generated website. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:29, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

• Comment — I support a move to Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics of Romania, the best translation of the official Hungarian name, Romániai Katolikus Örmények Ordináriátus, and its Romanian translation, Ordinariatul Armenilor Catolici din România. A letter from the outgoing bishop takes precedence over a press release which probably underwent several imperfect translations. — Biruitorul ^Talk 19:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

• The press release is a translation of a Latin original; the rename you suggest requires us to translate something ourselves. Better to use an English name that is attested in reliable sources. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:31, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

• The problem with trying to apply WP:COMMONNAME here is that there simply aren’t enough sources in English for us to make a judgment about “the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)”. Sure, there’s one source, but that’s hardly dispositive, unlike for, say, Kyiv or Munich, where we have countless sources available.
• Barring that, we fall back on WP:CRITERIA. “Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics of Romania”, I would argue, best expresses the Hungarian, the Romanian and (adding “Catholics” for precision, as reliable sources in the latter two languages do), the Latin Ordinariatus Romaniae Armenorum. — Biruitorul ^Talk 21:19, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support Ordinariate of the Armenian Catholics of Romania. Best translation. The official English-language logo of the government of Moldova reads "Government of Republic of Moldova" [1] but we're not going to drop the definite article "the" when necessary anytime soon. See also WP:OFFICIALNAMES.

In any case I'd favor Biruitorul's proposal before the nominator's as I am not a fan of proper names with lower case. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

• • Likewise, I don’t have an issue with the proposal made by Super Dromaeosaurus. — Biruitorul ^Talk 21:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
    • @Biruitorul and Super Dromaeosaurus: Since I was able to find Ordinariate for Armenian Catholics of Romania (and a couple very similar names) in some Catholic Near East Welfare Association literature, I think that's probably the best name that you both like. ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:36, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
      • That works for me. It may be slightly odd grammatically, but it does have the virtue of official usage, plus being equivalent to the official name in the relevant languages. — Biruitorul ^Talk 12:26, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Romania has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:28, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Armenia has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:28, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Catholicism has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:28, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.