Talk:Ordre des Palmes académiques

Phrase Change

I am changing the phrase "members of the educational community" to "educators" since the distinction is not awarded to students. I'm still slightly uncomfortable with the phrasing. --Storkk 12:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, I won't.... "educators" does not include other academics. Hrmn.... I can't phrase it right without repetition of the introductory sentence. --Storkk 12:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, be careful. The award is available to any employees of the education ministry, even clerical workers, librarian, administrative personnel, and the like, who are not teaching personnel or involved in education per se. That's why I was reluctant to touch that bit when I reviewed the translation. --Svartalf 13:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but my main problem is that currently, the article clearly (and wrongly) states that it is available to students -- they are also "members of the educational community". Maybe reword the sentence to "all members of the educational community (except students)"? --Storkk 14:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Felt like being bold. --Storkk 14:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Notable recipients?

If their wikilink is red are the recipients that notable? The list of notable recipients is the the longest part of the article. Before I undertake a major editing of this article I would like some consensus about notability before I whack the red links. EricSerge (talk) 23:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Upon subesquent investigation I found List of members of the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. Should we create List of members of the Ordre des Palmes Académiques? EricSerge (talk)

Foreign Recipients Page

I've established a foreign recipients page, as this list would be too big for this page. I'm currently transferring recipient details across as I get time, so a short list will remain here until I get them all transferred. PunkyNZ 29 October 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 07:22, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Honorific title

Shouldn't the recipients of the Odre des Palmes Academiques be called Sir or Dame? --82.243.56.209 (talk) 13:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

"Sir" and "Dame" are honorifics bestowed by royalty only, France being a republic, it doesn't apply. Fdutil (talk) 17:02, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 13 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 18:33, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

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Ordre des Palmes Académiques → Order of Academic Palms – Might as well go for English here. See for instance https://www.academia.edu/4192478/Knight_in_the_Order_of_Academic_Palms. PPEMES (talk) 15:11, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose: It's strictly a French honor, and I suspect that the common name in English sources is the French name. The article linked above uses the French name (in italics) in the article and only translates it in the web page title, which is not the title of the linked article. I also checked the sources that are cited in the article. I found two of them that are in English and accessible online (about Michel Alaux and Javad Tabatabai). Both of them use (only) the French term. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:57, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Have you considered WP:CONSISTENCY with National Order of Merit (France)? PPEMES (talk) 21:04, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't see any Talk page discussion about the title of that article. Looking at the article and at the List of foreign recipients of the National Order of Merit, I get the impression that it is also usually referred to in English sources by using the French name of the award, although I do see some mixture of usage for that. Moving it to the French name could potentially provide a WP:NATURALDIS benefit, since we could dispense with the "(France)" part of the name. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Perhaps it should be moved to Ordre des Palmes académiques (with lowercase "a"), since that seems to be the predominant usage in the cited sources, perhaps supported by MOS:FOREIGNTITLE. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:35, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose: per English GBooks. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:26, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. Not commonly known by its English translation. We only apply WP:UE when it is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 20 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Move both. Despite some sensible opposition, both the first and second moves seem to have consensus. (non-admin closure) Dicklyon (talk) 06:14, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

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• Ordre des Palmes Académiques → Ordre des Palmes académiques
• National Order of Merit (France) → Ordre national du Mérite

– WP:NATURALDIS and MOS:FOREIGNTITLE. Lowercase "a" in "académiques" per predominant usage in the cited sources. (Please also see the recently closed previous RM discussion.) Switching to the French form for the second topic provides a WP:NATURALDIS and consistency benefit, and the French form is actually common in English-language sources. These are French awards, and commonly referred to using French terms. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. qedk (t 桜 c) 19:19, 28 May 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 02:37, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

• Support the second, uncertain of the first. My searches give much, perhaps predominant, capitalisation of the "a" in the first article title (even in French, but also in English). Decapping is arguably more correct in French, but this is English Wikipedia, and there is no corresponding correct here. But the second proposal is a good catch. Proposed title is unambiguous and more natural, and the resulting redirect will catch any searching by the English name. Andrewa (talk) 23:07, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support the first, oppose the second. If English translations are readily available, these tend to be generously observed. PPEMES (talk) 09:48, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support both. These are known overwhelmingly in their original language. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:45, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support both per all of the above. The first is just wrong capitalization for a French-language phrase. The second per all the reasons set forth by the nominator. bd2412 T 17:13, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
• Support second, oppose first per Andrewa. It may be wrong to capitalise it that way in French, but in English and in the English sources cited, such as [1], we capitalise titles per English title case unless sources do otherwise.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:13, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Do you think that MOS:FOREIGNTITLE does not apply here? My impression is that it says we should use the French style here, as this is an award in current use. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:09, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.