Talk:Oregon/Archive 1

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Pronunciation

As a 5th generation East Oregonian, I have never heard another "Native" Oregonian pronounce Oregon as anything other than Or EE gun. I always wonder where people are from when they pronounce it as Or UH gun. Where ARE you from?

As someone who lives in Oregon, I've never heard another Oregonian pronounce the word "OR-ee-gun". As far as I or anyone else I know is concerned, that, along with "OR-ay-gon", is indicative of a non-resident. Rather, the pronunciation I have always heard is "OR-(shwa)-gun".

I agree. I did some further reading, and the (shwa) more closely represents the correct pronunciation. What's the best way to represent this so a non-linguist can understand it, "uh?" Dave C. 02:27, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As someone who also lives in Oregon, I can say this: pronouncing it like the word "Organ", or as "Or-eh-gun" ("eh" being the "e" sound in the words "bet", "pet", etc), is a pretty safe way to not be considered a tourist. (I remember some political commercial during the 2004 election season, showing a board meeting of a fictional company outside Oregon trying to do something bad to it for the company's own purposes (it was some ballot measure); the chairman pronounced the state's name as "Or-ee-gawn", or at least very blatantly incorrectly; I thought that was pretty funny, and a great way to illustrate that this is some outsider and a bad guy.) The "shwa" mentioned by the original person here is a schwa, which is a "generic" vowel sound that sounds roughly like "uh" and can, more or less, be pronounced like any vowel. To not sound like a tourist, though, you shouldn't linger on that vowel sound (like in "Or-ee-gun"). -- Vystrix Nexoth 01:24, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

As someone who also lives in Oregon I've never heard anyone in this state pronounce it any other way but "Or-ee-gun" or "Or-eh-gun" (the "eh" or "ee" is short, not long). There is no "uh" involved. I've talked to relatives and friends from all over the state about this and they seem to agree on this point.

"The 'ee' is short, not long"--exactly. So it barely sounds like an "ee". Similarly the "gun" part should not be pronounced so carefully as to sound like a clean short "u". I think saying "Orrigan" not-too-carefully will get people as close as anything. (I live in Portland.) DanielCristofani 22:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Regardless of the T-shirt I cited, the way I actually normally say it is pretty close to "OR-i-g'n" or to put it another way, the famous T-shirt really should have said "ORIG'N". The main point is that it's not "or-e-gahn" like so many outsiders say it. Wahkeenah 18:38, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I lived on the edge of the metropoliton Portland area for 12 years, and would have to say that "Or-eh-gun" was the most common pronounciation I heard. The only people I ever heard pronounce it as "Or-ee-gone" were east-coast network news talking heads. But then again, I had never heard Aloha (a city in the metro area) pronounced as anything other than "uh-low-hah" until I moved there. Fortunately, the folks at Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary have an audio file with which one can hear the common pronunciation in the metro area: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/oregon According to the M-W folks "Pronunciation: 'or-i-g&n, 'är-, chiefly by outsiders -"gän."

The spoken pronounciation on that dictionary page is exactly correct and we should list that as a source. There shouldn't be any dispute about this. That IS the correct pronounciation and people who say it differently are, frankly, wrong. VegaDark 09:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I always pronounce it 'organ' and I've heard other locals say it only like that. I've never seen someone that lives in Oregon pronounce it 'oar-ee-gun', I've only seen most non-Oregonians pronounce it that way. And personally, 'oar-ee-gun' just sounds weird to me. I just pronounced it that way now to see how it feels and it seems like a different word. I'm very sure the 'organ' pronounciation is correct from everything I've seen.

I hate to make the whole pronunciation discussion even more complicated, but the suggested pronunciation of 'Oregon' is not pronounced like most people from Oregon would pronounce it. First of all, the sound 'Oregon' begins with (the beginning 'o') is shown as a open-mid back rounded vowel, which has merged in the cot-caught merger for virtually all Oregonians and is not present in Pacific Northwest English. Instead, the sound Oregon starts with for most Oregonians is like the 'o' in 'go'. Therefore I suggest we add the pronuncation oʊɹɪgən next to the current one. Redtitan 02:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't make head or tails of the "IPA" version of pronouncing things, so if you can understand it and it is wrong, just change it to how it is said in the dictionary link above (and is ref'd right next to the pronouncation on the article), which is correct. VegaDark 04:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Born and raised here in Portland, as were my parents and their parents. All of us and everyone I've ever known who's from here have always pronounced it "OR-EEE-GUN". The only, and I mean ONLY, people I've ever heard call it "ORA-GONE" are from the very east coast. I'm sure there are areas of Oregon where there is an accent and pronounce it "wrong", but I'd say it's extremely safe to say that the correct and most widely used pronunciation is "OR-EEE-GUN". Viper007Bond 06:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Culture, Identity

Oregonians still have quite a bit of ethno-centrism that stands in the way of cultural progress, in my own personal completely-biased opinion. For example, a great many second- or third-generation white immigrants call themselves native Oregonians despite their total lack of Native American heritage, simply because they are third generation instead of first. At the same time these same people blast newcomers from other states, especially California. Although we haven't seen any "Don't Californicate Oregon" signs in a while, the cultural undercurrent is still quite present.

I'm not sure how to integrate it into the article without creating a big mess :-)

- Alan Millar

"Don't Californicate Oregon!" I like that. Where can I get one of those? Anyone who regards California as culturally superior to Oregon is free to move there, sí?

Well, it is proper that anyone born in America should be considered a native to America. I mean, if they're ethnically German but born in America, they are not German natives are they? No. So someone being born in the state of Oregon is a native Oregonian no matter their ethnic background as much as someone born within the United States is a native to it. "Native American" as an ethnicity is a bit of a misnomer; it should be ancestral or aboriginal American. Nagelfar 11:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Good luck getting everyone in the world to change their politically correct nomenclature, even if you are technically correct. :) Wahkeenah 13:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

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Hopefully, this ethno-centrism is adequately addressed by the section "The state has a long history of polarizing conflicts between its citizens: Native Americans vs. English fur trappers, ...native-Oregonians vs. Californians (or outsiders in general)."

Personally, I think the huge influxing of Californians (and Mexicans, and on and on) into Oregon, for all the problems its caused (e.g. congestion), it will help greatly dilute and diffuse the ethno-centrism. When one's co-workers and friends represent several different races, it makes it tough to maintain a prejudicial stance.

-- User:BryceHarrington

I was not aware that Oregonian and Californian were ethnicities. ;) --Brion

Never been to Oregon, eh?  ;-) -- User:BryceHarrington

It's a well-established medical fact that by the third generation, a "native" Oregonian's DNA has become its own ethnic classification. I've observed that the same process occurs in Texans, as well ;-) TartarSauce 23:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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In the last few days, I've noticed that people have been constantly adding more cities & towns to this article. Which raises the question: which ones *should* be added -- & why? If we don't agree to some kind of criteria, eventually we will add every one of the 400-odd incorporated communities to this page -- which will make it unwieldly. -- llywrch 20:33 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)

I added a few cities, but mostly I just cleaned up the list that was there. I've been wondering this myself; should there be a separate page listing cities only? Or perhaps only list those with populations over a certain number? -- Chuggnutt

Right now we have 22 cities (counting Oregon City) listed. If we were to select the 20 largest Oregon cities (to pick a round number), they would be:

Portland, Eugene, Salem, Gresham, Beaverton, Hillsboro, Medford, Springfield, Bend, Corvallis, Tigard, Albany, Lake Oswego, Keizer, McMinnville, Oregon City, Grants Pass, Tualatin, West Linn, and Milwaukie.

Hmm. The list on the main page is scattered a little more evenly across a map of Oregon. Maybe we should offer a List of Oregon Cities on a second page, with all 240 incorporated locales. (My earlier number was from memory: this number is from Loy's Atlas of Oregon, 2nd ed.) -- llywrch 22:46 Feb 2, 2003 (UTC)

At List of cities in the United States, there are empty links to articles like List of cities in Oregon -- once the list gets unmanageable, the top five to ten or so should stay here, and the rest be moved there. Tokerboy

Good idea. I like the idea of having a geographically diverse selection of cities on the main page-- like Porland, Salem, Medford, Bend, etc.-- only listing the top 5 or 10 or so, and then link to the List of cities. I can start filling out the List of cities in Oregon page in the meantime... --Chuggnutt

Well I figure on List of cities in Oregon we should have all, and I've been adding from the ODOT official map. (I work for ODOT)--Dmsar And as for the Cal/OR conflict... I am a "native" Arizonan. One of the main resentments is that Cals spoiled their state and will do the same to ours. Such as big lawns and swimming pools in AZ in the middle of the DESERT. Also you can sell a shack in California in a high property value area and almost buy a mansion in Oregon with the proceeds. This causes the Oregon property values to increase beyond the relatively lower income property owners' ability to pay the increased tax liability. Forces some people who thought they were gonna live compfortably to make major changes. Also historically Oregonians have an independant "quirky" political focus and some of the Californians want to "re-create" our fine state into a provence of California. A decade ago as a cashier, I asked for ID for a check and was bitched out by a woman who said, "In CALIFORNIA we don't have to give you that information". Well I wanted to slap her and say, "You are NOT in CALIFORNIA, and we DON'T have to take your check. But it wasn't my store, so I simply seethed. Dmsar 12:57 21 Jun 2003 (UTC) Well I finished adding the cities (if you can call population 25 a "city") Dmsar 14:00 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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I think the hostility towards Californians is mostly a manifestation of the frustration/fear of the happy Eden dweller perceiving an inadequate recognition by the newcomer of the mostly-shared values which made Oregon the place that it is (or was). Many people end up parroting the hostility without understanding its basis. The basis is important, the hostility is not. -- Russell Senior

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User:FactionofReds has made some edits that are somewhat POV ('beautiful forests and streams'), and has also eliminated the template. This should probably be reverted, and then the good edits made by F of Reds can be reinstated. •→Iñgólemo←• 20:30, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

Origin

If it is true that, as the article says, "the name used for the Columbia River used by the indigenous population was "Aurigon"", why do we wonder about the origin at all? Originally, all of the three NW states were the "Oregon Territory" - they would naturally be identified by their main river. BTW, how should "Aurigon" be pronounced? French? Sebastian 06:50, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)

WTF???? Speaking as a native Oregonian & amateur local historian, I have never heard this theory put forth. It does not appear in the authoritative reference of the origin for Oregon names -- Oregon Geographic Names. Inasmuch as the Native Americans did talk with Lewis & Clark (as well as employees of the Hudson Bay Company shortly afterwards), some evidence for this claim would have surfaced long, long before now. Seeing how the contributor comes from an anonymous IP address, & offered no source for this theory, I'm removing this sentence with prejudice. -- llywrch 04:33, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

More errors removed

• "pronounced OHR-a-gun, and not oh-re-gone as many on the east coast seem to believe" -- neither pronounciation is correct, if you want to follow local practice. We natives say "OH-ree-gun". There used to be a decal many University of oregon alumni sported on their cars 10-20 years ago that read "ORYGUN".
• "*Portland also has the largest urban park in the US: Forest Park." Sadly, this is not true: as noted at Forest Park (Portland), this honor belongs to South Mountain Park in Phoenix, Arizona -- although many locals believe otherwise.

At least someone quickly removed that silliness about Salim Stodemire playing for the Lake Oswego Lakers. -- llywrch 20:34, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:U.S. cities without articles

Wikipedia:U.S. cities without articles includes quite a long list of cities in Oregon that don't seem to be filling in very quickly. I suspect many could be solved by a redirect, if only there was someone knowledgeable about Oregonian geography to try. Any takers? Tuf-Kat 03:05, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

I scanned that article and see many ghost towns. There are also many "locations" that are well known, but I would not call them cities, and some not even towns. Some may have a few houses or just a store. Is that what you mean? To what page would these be redirected? Dave_C.

More on pronunciation

Funny, I was born and raised in Oregon (Estacada), and we pronounced it organ, like the thing they play at weddings and funerals. We always giggled at television ads, "Send $9.95 to Box 3, Portland, OR-UHH-GONE."

Just my $0.02. Maybe we should drop the pronunciation thing.

dino 03:01, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

My girlfriend from Oregon corrected me the first time I said Ora-gone, and said it was ora-gn (organ with a schwa in the middle). Oregonians must all obsess on the subject. Art LaPella 06:18, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Agreed I'm from Suburbia Portland and I have always pronounced it 'organ,' so it has to be the truth. ABart26 22:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Oregon Wikigroup Project marked inactive

66.167.137.190 08:28, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC): The Wikipedia:Oregon Wikigroup Project has been marked inactive. If there's interest, please join. I live in Portland, and everyone I know pronounces it "Or-Eh-Gun". Makes the most sense to me...

Famous Oregonians?

Perhaps we could/should add a section for Famous Oregonians? The most recent that comes to mind is Katee Sackhoff of Battlestar Galactica (playing Lt. Kara 'Starbuck' Thrace). I'm sure there are many others.

On the pronunciation thing: I describe it to people as "or-a-gun... like a knife, OR A GUN." A little graphic, but I'm never misunderstood.

On "Native Oregonians": Nobody is saying you have to be a Native American Indian (or whatever term is PC this week) to be a Native Oregonian. A Native Oregonian would one who was born here, usually to Oregonian parents.

I am an Oregonian (though not technically a 'native Oregonian'), I identify with and love Oregon, and have been an Oregonian since moving there at age 3. Native Oregonian? No, not really. Oregonian at heart? Absolutely. There's something intangible about Oregonian-ness.

So back to the topic: Who are some other famous Oregonians? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by VigilancePrime (talk • contribs) 17:08, 2 October 2005.

VigilancePrime, check out Category:People from Oregon. Looks like Katee Sackhoff is listed there. -- Dave C.^{talk | Esperanza} 01:33, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Saw it; thanks! I didn't see a link to this from the main Oregon page when I went back to check: If it's not there, it probably ought to be in the "related pages" section? --- VigilancePrime 01:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

This one should be considered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Donald_Walsch Oregonic 06:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Embarrassing

"A 1977 article in U.S. News and World Report described Oregon as a

state of scenic grandeur and easygoing individualism [that] is writing the preface to what may be the future for all Americans: simple living, conservation, and limited growth.

That description still applies over a quarter-century later. Oregonians are proud of their state's beautiful forests and streams, and place great importance on proper use of their natural resources. They struggle to balance this with the desire to support the development needed to support its increasing population without losing what attracts people to Oregon in the first place. The state has pioneered some innovative solutions to the nation's environmental problems, such as the Oregon Bottle Bill, but has also suffered from the rapid pace of logging in its forests."

I took this out. Did an employee of the tourist office visit? lots of issues | leave me a message 18:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

While I can see where you're coming from, I don't see this as embarrassingly advertising-like. It's a reference to a national publication and continues on the mindset of Oregonians as a whole; Oregonians love their state.

In the paragraph above, the pronunciation of Oregon itself is discussed. This gets to how Oregonians feel about the matter and their state.

But at the same time, I'm not willing to unilaterally revert it. What do others think? I agree with parts of either argument. Thoughts?

VigilancePrime 21:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

The paragraph may seem overly boastful, but I think at least a few points within it deserve to stay. Oregon has indeed been on the forefront of addressing various environmental issues like the bottle bill, being one of the first states to have no private beaches, an unusually high percentage of national forest land, etc. There's no reason not to mention these, albiet possibly in a less emotive way. It would probably also help to point out the flipside, that at the same time, the state deals with constant controversy around the best way to manage logging, hydro power, and land use. --Mattmcc 22:03, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

"Estimates released September 2004 show double-digit growth in Latino and Asian American populations since the 2000 Census."

Pardon my stupidity, but what is this supposed to mean? "Double digit growth". There are 10 more Latinos and Asian Americans in Oregon since 2000? 50? 500? 50000??? Peoplesunionpro 18:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

It's probably referring to percentage growth rather than absolute numerical growth, but you're right, it's not clearly worded at all. A qualifier should be added to that effect. Microtonal 19:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Major cities and towns

This section says that Eugene is the 3rd largest city because it just surpassed Salem, however I think that Eugene is the 3rd largest city, but Salem just surpassed it... Just to make sure, here's the website I got my population info from: http://www.pdx.edu/prc/annualorpopulation.html

Oh yeah, in pronunciation of Oregon, I say Or-gun, however I am an Or-eh-go-nian.

Fixing Up

I'm going to begin copyediting and searching for sources to cite the article with. Any help from fellow Oregonians would be appreciated. PDXblazers 00:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I recommend deleting the trivia section entirely as it is unencyclopedic. I'll give some time in case there are any objections. PDXblazers 01:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with the section as long as it is backed up with sources. VegaDark 03:21, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The main issue with the trivia section is that it is generally frowned upon in the FA process. PDXblazers 03:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it? I wasn't aware of this. Get rid of it then. May want to incorporate some of the more interesting facts into the article though. VegaDark 03:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, anything that is salvageable we definitely want to use. We just want it in the body of the article instead of in the awkward "trivia" section.

History section is heavily POV

Please see Oregon boundary dispute for consideration of fairer/more thorough British activity/colonization.Skookum1 08:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Add Smithsonian Education link?

Hello! I am a writer for the Smithsonian's Center for Education, which publishes Smithsonian in Your Classroom, a magazine for teachers. An online version of an issue titled "Establishing Borders: The Expansion of the United States, 1846-48" is available at this address:

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/borders/start.html

The issue includes a background essay and lesson plans on the Oregon Country dispute. If you think visitors would find this site valuable, I wish to invite you to include it as an external link. We would be most grateful.

Thank you so much for your attention.

Moderate Democratic?

Is it fair to say Oregon is a "moderate Democratic-leaning Blue State"? It seems to me it's just really polarized, with people taking strong positions in both directions (and with a huge gap between leftist strongholds like Portland, Ashland, and Eugene and say, Eastern Oregon). To say it's "a moderate Democratic state" seems to confuse the issue. Sarge Baldy 16:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Which is why I just added one of my earlier edits which was inexplicably removed. Oregon has a large block of Independent voters who defy predictions. Add to this mix conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans and you have a state where it easier to buy a machine-gun than it is to legally pump your own gasoline. This whole Red State/Blue State thing is really naive. But it is an easy model for the talking-heads on television to babble about.CyranoDeWikipedia 08:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation on 15 May

Just so everyone who's not familiar with the International Phonetic Alphabet knows what I put as the pronunciation, the listed pronunciation is "OH-rih-gun". The superscript then leads to a footnote telling people to stop saying "oh-rih-gahn", which we all know is just flat out wrong. I used a relatively broad transcription into IPA for ease of understanding, and got rid of the separate paragraph on the pronunciation because I felt it detracted from the article. I decided to not go with "OAR-gun" because even people who say that retain a slight bit of the "ih" sound and I don't know how to write a eclipsed sound in IPA. the iBook of the Revolution 05:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

"Professional sports" section

The comment about the Beavers and Ducks being the "most popular sports entities in the state" is unsubstantiated and kind of smacks of POV. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I am not sure how to make that verifiable. Also, what's with the out-of-place radio-related links? Were those orphaned from another section? -Big Smooth 22:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't sure about that either. I generally would have taken the Blazers to be the most popular sports team in the state, at least for most of my life, and I grew up in that stretch between Corvallis and Eugene where things are the hottest. Today though, I don't know. Sarge Baldy 22:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Its definitely unverifiable and POV. I'd like to see something in the sports section about ducks and beavers, but I dont reallly know what. PDXblazers 05:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

A thought on verifiability: You could take the number of people coming to sports events as an indicator (e.g., 58,000 - 59.000 to Autzen Stadium, home of the Ducks) and perhaps get TV viewing data for sports broadcasts from the local stations.

Polarizing conflicts?

I have a bit of a problem with the following sentence:

The state has a long history of polarizing conflicts: Native Americans vs. British fur trappers, British vs. settlers from the U.S., ranchers vs. farmers, wealthy growing cities vs. established but poor rural areas, loggers vs. environmentalists, white supremacists vs. anti-racists, supporters of social spending vs. anti-tax activists, and native Oregonians vs. Californians (or outsiders in general).

These dichotomies are all lumped together here, in a way that doesn't seem to help the article very much. Instead of this sentence, I would propose that we put the information into various places in the rest of the article that deal with these subjects. For instance, British vs. settlers has been touched upon already, early on in the history section. Loggers vs. environmentalists is perhaps important enough to warrant more discussion later on in the article.

It's just that to state these "conflicts" in such a way seems very un-encyclopedic, not to mention that for us to endorse them by including them here makes it sound as though they are the only important controversies that have affected the state.

Finally, the last one really bothers me. Sure, Oregonians joke about hating Californians, and vice versa. But is it really a "polarizing conflict"? And Oregonians vs. "outsiders in general"? Are we so closed-minded? I don't really think so...

I'm inclined to take this whole sentence out, but as it is a big one, I wanted to see what others think first. Thanks! romarin[talk to her ] 03:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Although I think Oregon is polarized in some ways, that sentence is much too dichotomous and simplistic. It might be nice to flesh out some of these conflicts, but I don't think it's in good taste to just list all these supposed fights without giving any sort of background or context. And for that matter some of the things listed probably don't merit inclusion at all. Sarge Baldy 04:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

This also touches on something Baldy said earlier about "moderate democratic." The major rift in the state would probably be the mostly liberal Willamette Valley vs. the mostly conservative rest of the state. Something probably should be said about this, I'm sure there must be a source somewhere. PDXblazers 23:16, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Does Oregon come from the spanish word 'orejón'?

i heard a story about a tribe of indians with big ears who lived in this region of the united states. Is there a connection? (orejón means big ears)

I've never heard this theory before, and I'm doubtful. But if you find anything out, it might be interesting. Sarge Baldy 23:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

No, it's from Rivière d'Ouragon - Hurricane River (French; maybe Rivière de l'Ouragon, can't remember if the article is needed in that formation or not), which was one of the names for the 'great river of the west' speculated upon by cartographers and explorers. The "raging wind" description is pretty apt for the Columbia Gorge, and the report of this windy throttle to the river basin came east long before explorers came west. Sorry I don't have a cite handy but this is from an Oregon Historical Quarterly essay a few years back.Skookum1 00:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, no one knows for sure, and as the article says there's various theories regarding it. Sarge Baldy 04:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Baldy is correct. The Register Guard here in Eugene ran an article on it about a year back, and I have seen it in other places too. There are theories about where it came from (the river in Wisconsin being one of them), but no one can prove the origin of the name. PDXblazers 04:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Oregón, come from the Columbia´s river old name, maybe like Aragón river from Spain or a dialectal name in spanish for Oregano (spice or field) "No todo el monte es oregano" In Spain some villages, rivers and places are named Oregón. "Orín" a related word is "rust" in english, and the end "-gon" is a basque root for "river" or "Stream". For example Aragón, word of Basque origin, can be translate "Blackthornwood River" or "Thorn Creek". "Cisneros" from Leonese language is the name of a village, a river and gintreewood. The similarity with "Cisne" (Swan) is chance. The Iberian peninsula have had many languages latins or prehistoric, with words yet used in locations.Anselmocisneros 22:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if there were Basques here, that might be relevant.....somewhere there's a whole websit on this issue, exploring all the variations that Sarge Baldy alludes to; I've gone with the French one because the French/Metis were the first to hear of this river, and of course I'm a Canuck so favour our own continental-imperialist myths and tradition over yours ;-) But I'll try and find that website and come back here with the link.Skookum1 22:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• Looking for Sustrato vasco en lenguas romances in spanish wikipedia. Anselmocisneros 23:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

I deleted the trivia section because it is unencyclopedic and frowned upon in the FA process (if this ever actually makes it there). Anyway, I'll put it here in case anyone wants it. PDXblazers 04:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

• Before Oregon officially became a U.S. territory in 1848, the provisional government briefly encouraged the minting of $5 and $10 dollar "Beaver Coins" in order to make up for the lack of U.S. currency. Thus Oregon has the distinction of being one of the few U.S. areas to mint its own currency.
• Oregon is the only state in the United States with a flag that features a different obverse and reverse. It is one of the few official flags in the world that do so. The "front" of the flag shows the state seal, while the "back" features a small picture of a beaver, the official state animal.
• Oregon is one of two states that prohibits self service at its gas stations. The other is New Jersey.
• The Kingsmen, who made the song Louie, Louie famous, are from Portland. Fans subsequently made a brief, unsuccessful effort during the height of the song's popularity to make Louie, Louie Oregon's official state song.[1]
• In 1970 the Oregon Highway Division (now Oregon Department of Transportation) exploded a dead beached whale on a beach just outside Lane County in an attempt to rip the carcass into smaller portions that would be easier to dispose of. The procedure did not go as expected and KATU news reporter Paul Linnman captured the results on film of the exploding whale. The footage has since become an Internet meme.
• Herbert Hoover lived with his uncle in Newberg, Oregon for six years after his parents died.

Oregon from "orogenous"????

Oh, gimme a break; this is "reaching" in the worst way. And if 1765 is the earliest use of "Ouragon", in the French spelling meaning "hurricane" then that would appear to be it. But this latest "orogenous" is just mind-numbingly OFF; I've waded in here before to do edits but I can't tell which part of what was added with this orogenous business. It would help if the earnest individual who posted it understood that (in English, anyway), the 'g' in "orogenous" is "soft", not "hard" like it is in Oregon. If people in the Age of Englightenment were going to use a Greek word, they would have been a lot more obvious about it....Skookum1 15:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

BC & Pacific Northwest History Forum

Please see RE BC & Pacific Northwest History Forum re: Talk:List of United States military history events#Border Commission troops in the Pacific Northwest. If you think maybe I should also move some or copy some of my other stuff from NW history and BC history pages and various Indigenous peoples project article/talk pages let me know; I never mean to blog, but I'm voluble and to me everything's interconnected; never meaning to dominate a page so have made this area to post my historical rambles on. Thoughts?Skookum1 03:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment on my posting of this: if anyone has any questions or wants to debate any issues relating to Oregon Country/Columbia District/Pacific Northwest history/historical geography, colonialist or aboriginal/indigenous, please feel free to drop by the forum and start a thread/topic, or just butt in at yer leisure.Skookum1 05:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

year-round lift-serviced skiing. This sounds like a brag

It is one of the few places in the Northern Hemisphere where lift-serviced alpine skiing is available year round.

On Mt Hood, I presume. OK, so there's only Whistler-Blackcomb and ?? Anything in the Olympics or Washington Cascades? Not that I know of, but...Willow, Alaska maybe? Nope, sea level at base. Maybe Hudson Bay Mtn at Smithers BC? Too dry I think, and not enough business to stay open Can't think of one in Europe, not even in Norway. Nothing in Japan is high enough (Yao). So there's Hood (?) and Whistler-Blackcomb. That's two, sort of three; maybe in a few yours four if Jumbo (in the Purcells) gets approved. The wording just struck me as odd, either be accurate to the number, and where, or don't bother.Skookum1 07:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Yep on Mt. Hood specifically at Timberline Lodge ski area. Whistler-Blackcomb stops skiing at the end of July [2]. Hurricane Ridge (Olympics) shuts down in March [3]. In Alaska, Alyeska closed before June 3rd [4]. Couldn't find a ski area near Willow [5]. To be thorough I looked for the longest season in the eastern U.S. and Canada: here it says they close in April.

In Europe, Sölden, Austria is one. Many will claim Mont Blanc (near Chamonix, France), but there is no lift service near the glacier. Maybe there's something in Asia or eastern Europe? I don't know so, and the likely field of candidates seems limited. —EncMstr 08:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The only candidate in BC I was thinking of was Whistler-Blackcomb, but I just checked their website and it doesn't say anything about summer skiing, i.e. lift-serviced. Locals ski year-round if they're ready to hike for it, and the lifts to the peak of Blackcomb (but not Whistler) do stay open; Whistler's is open in summer for hiking, as there's no glaciers/icefields up there; I suspect the Crystal and Blackcomb chairs or t-bars at least are open all summer and will take skiers, but it's mostly marketed at sight-seeing and hiking/mountain biking descents. I'll check on this, but as I'm not sure it doesn't sound very likely there's anywhere else. Not unless the People's Republic has built lift-chairs somewhere around Lhasa (which is kind of dry and doesn't get much snow anyway....).Skookum1 23:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC) RE: Eastern Europe: there's nothing in the Tatras (Czech-Polish border) or Urals that's high enough, and there are no ski resorts in the Caucasus that I've heard of (a centuries-old war zone, so not very likely...). People do ski on Dovre and Jotunheimen in Norway in the summer, but it's tour-skiing anyway and there's not much in the way of downhill places in Norway; Voss mostly, but it's definitely not got summer snow.Skookum1 23:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Colbert report

When was this featured on the Colbert report? --Liface 05:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Today. He told viewers to go add false information about the elephant population tripling in the last 6 months (spiting environmentalists). —Centrx→talk • 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

His suggestion on Oregon was to label it as one of the following: California's Canada, Washington's Mexico, or Idaho's Portugal. I seriously don't think it would damage the credibility of Oregon if mention of this television reference made it over to the main page in the future. User:Dragonstrider 06:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

July 31,2006, Colbert mentioned some viewer's mail from Portland that took acception with his reference to Hashish and Portland. Colbert then went on a tirade trying to remember how he referred to Oregon (see above) and has now decided that Oregon is actually "Idaho's Portugal".

Cobert ROCKS. -Coyotez

Fixed and wikied.--293.xx.xxx.xx 09:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

You have no idea how much I lol'd when I saw that episode, and went on to find this XD--Xc4l1br 12:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

It was pretty funny. But having 4 references to Idaho's Portugal, in one article, and none of them in reference to the actualy show seems a little unneccesary. ABart26 22:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I saw the clip on YouTube, and he did not instruct anyone to change this article, but rather pretended to change the Colbert Report article to indicate that Idaho's Portugal was always how he (Colbert) referenced Oregon. He did tell viewers to change the Elephant article.--72.73.25.176 23:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

pretend nothing, he honestly did. The logs are all there, User:Stephencolbert has two contributions, both concurrent with the exact time the show aired and both making the exact changes :)70.71.162.88 08:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you are familiar with the act of typing, but he was clearly faking it. Also, he really didn't look at the screen as he "typed" which would make it hard to edit something. A more likely scenario is that an audience member registered the account and made the change just after the taping.--24.75.136.130 15:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed. The articles that Colbert instructed people to vandalize were Elephant and The_Colbert_Report_recurring_elements#Recurring_topics, which is the page that references Colbert's recurring Oregon joke. --M@rēino 05:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Wikiality and Other Tripling Elephants ... --The Cunctator 07:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

another vandal, who was quite sneaky

they made Idaho's Portugal redirect here. It should probably redirect to something about colbert. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ikanreed (talk • contribs) 12:46, August 2, 2006 (UTC)

Same with Washington's Mexico and California's Canada. Katr67 19:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems that someone's changed those pages to now redirect to The_Colbert_Report_recurring_elements#Recurring_topics --Cybercobra 20:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with that decision. If someone types those terms into the search engine, it's pretty clear they want to learn about Colbert. --M@rēino 22:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I say this page should be reprotected. Ashwinr 19:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I asked the unprotector to reprotect it, but s/he hasn't responded. —EncMstr 19:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Willamette Valley as "most fertile"

This assertion crops up (pun unintended) in the Salem, Oregon and Willamette Valley articles as well. I did a little digging and posted my results on the Willamette Valley talkpage. Katr67 22:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

More Vandalism

Oregon State flag has been changed to include "IDAHO'S PORTUGAL", in clear reference to the Colbert Report incident. For lack of a replacement image, I encourage people to submit a new one (I haven't been able to revert the flag change.)

I also suggest Oregon is protected from vandalism, since these jokes seem recurrent. rfernand 05:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It would seem to at least warrant semi-protection (protection from edits by unregistered ppl -- much like elephant) at least until the Colbertites calm down. --Zonath^Yak 09:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Over-Priced Housing

In the "state government" sectio, I read:

Most of the land in the state is ineligible for development which has led to an over-priced housing market

This is editorializing, and certainly not true--especially without a reference. I am not much of a wiki-editor, so I will let someone else edit this. If you think it should stay in there, then perhaps we should have a section on the debate between property-rights activists and smart-growth/new-urbanist activists, which could be more fairly portrayed. Either way, this sentance certainly doesn't belong in the "state government" section.

Please be bold, especially in eliminating factual errors. If you see a statement that isn't supported by Wikipedia:Reliable Sources - which describes almost all of this article - you are free to remove it without any other explanation, simply noting that it's unsupported by a reference.

I went in to yank out that statement, and was appalled by some of the other stuff I saw. "Oregon is the only west coast state where it is still legal to purchase machine-guns". Uh, no. Federal law has banned the sale of machine guns in the 1930s. "Oregon has a substantially higher minimum wage law than neighboring California but is an "at-will" state where the major employers routinely have mass layoffs". The presumption of "at-will" employment in California goes back to the 19th century. Major employers have mass layoffs because they are in cyclical industries, not because of state law. "Oregon is also one of two states where self-serve gasoline stations are prohibited by law, the other being New Jersey." Even if it were true, what's the point? "Many employees in the Portland metropolitan area live in the neighboring Washington state which has far more affordable housing." That's a plus for Oregon. You get to tax their incomes, but you don't have to educate their kids.

I was afraid to read any further. This article looks like it needs MAJOR cleanup, and I've already got too many irons in the fire. Please BE BOLD. Many of the other state articles have NPOV and Original Research problems - it's hard not to brag, and it's hard not to drop in facts you KNOW to be true (such as that guy did) but you might want to take a look at Pennsylvania. It's starting to shape up, although there are still a couple of sections that are significantly deficient. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 23:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Yanking out major sections of an article because you "think" it is unsupported is vandalism. Try doing a little fact checking first. A really good place to start is with the Oregon Constitution and more specifically the Oregon State statues which can be found at: www.leg.state.or.us/05orlaws/main.html

Here are a few facts you've deleted which are easily verified.

1. Federal Law did not ban machine-guns in the 1930's. They imposed a tax which is currently $200. For a more detailed explanation see: www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns_legalities.html
2. California has extensive case law supporting implicit employment contracts, particularly for high wage employees. Oregon does not. Absent a written employment contract, a 7-figure employee in Oregon has no more job security than a counter worker at Burger King. www.boli.state.or.us/BOLI/TA/T_FAQ_Employmentatwill.shtml
3. Contractors are routinely layed-off because of a law-suit against Microsoft wherein a long term contractor sued claiming he was a "de facto" employee. No long term employment as a contractor equals no future law suits. Prior to the suit, employers would routinely lay off contractors because every few months or so they would hire a new agency to handle the paperwork for their contractors. Anyone working for the old agency was layed-off and had to reapply.
4. Oregon's traditional cyclical industries of Timber, Farming and Fishing account for a small percentage of the workforce with most of the farm jobs handled by migrant workers and yes illegal aliens. The largest employers (like Intel) are not "cyclical" industries.
5. The "point" about a state where it is easier to buy a machine-gun than to pump your own gasoline is self-evident.
6. Your statement "That's a plus for Oregon. You get to tax their incomes, but you don't have to educate their kids." is quite telling. Taxing someone for government services they neither use nor have a voice in is quite unfair.
7. Oregon's urban growth boundaries where enacted in 1970. A State Constitutional Amendment was passed (twice) which now requires government to compensate land owners for any reduced value of their property as a result of rezoning. See www.metro-region.org/article.cfm?articleID=277
8. The central theme is to show the dichotomy of Oregon Laws and Government.

Since everything in my contribution is easily verified either by the above links are by a modicum of fact checking, future deletions will be reported as vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CyranoDeWikipedia (talk • contribs) 06:54:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC).

Just two things of note:

First, WP:V pretty much supports the practice of placing citations on the main article page, rather than on the talk page. Additionally, everything in your edits should be easily verifiable solely through the sources you provide, not through 'a modicum of fact-checking'. After all, you're the one making the assertions, so you should be the one to back them up.

Second, some of the facts in your edit don't seem to fit within the government section. The mention of at-will employment and major layoffs would seem to make a better fit inside the 'economy' section, as neither has much to do with the any kind of direct government function. Likewise, the mention that many Portland workers live in Vancouver seems more related to economy than government, and so does the mention of the housing market. Perhaps a slight recategorization of a few of the facts is in order? --Zonath^Yak 06:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that a couple of the lines should be moved to the economy section. However, the "assertions" are common knowledge to anyone who has lived in Oregon and many of them have appeared on national news programs - particularly the land use laws. Placing references to them on the main page is akin to placing a reference next to the fact that water is wet. Having a long series of footnotes at the bottom of a page is unprofessional. When one writes an article it is necessary to write with the assumption that the reader has a minimal threshold of knowledge. If one writes at a level that any four year old can understand then the average reader quickly loses interest. And how would one, for example, place a citation for the difference between Oregon's "at will" employment and California's "implicit employment contract" which has evolved in case law for longer than most readers of the article have been alive? Granted, there is little practical difference in the two states for an employee who works at Burger King. But once one starts to move up the corporate ladder, the difference is striking. One can simply google any of my facts and very near the top of the search page results will be some "official" (usually government) link where it can be verified.CyranoDeWikipedia 02:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, the Water article doesn't contain the word "wet".

Your assertion that a long list of footnotes is unprofessional is absurd. Professional journals are chock-full of footnotes. But that isn't the standard for Wikipedia, anyhow. Wikipedia isn't edited by professionals who have established credentials and reputations to protect. It's edited by amateurs - which is why Wikipedia has the Wikipedia:Verifiability, the Wikipedia:No Original Research and Wikipedia:Reliable Sources policies. I repeat, these are official policies', not merely guidelines.

The assumption an encyclopedia makes is that the reader is ignorant, but not stupid. If the reader already knows something, why would you include it in an article? If the reader doesn't know something, he's got a right to say "Sez who?", and check a citation to see your answer. You don't have to provide a citation, of course, but if you don't, ANY EDITOR - including someone who isn't a registered user, and never heard of Wikipedia 5 minutes earlier - has the right to remove your statement.

Most articles in Wikipedia should be written so that a 4th-grader can understand them. After all, 4th-graders use encyclopedias to write reports for school. Nor is it insulting to write at a 4th-grade level. Most newspapers and magazines are written at a 4th-grade level. This isn't about writing at a 4th-grade level, though. It's about providing reliable, trustworthy content, instead of blather.

If you can easily find a reliable source for any of the facts in this article, then it's obviously no burden for you to meet the Verifiability policy, so why are you arguing about it? Simply provide a cite to a reliable source. But if you can't find a reliable source that summarizes the differences between California employment law and Oregon employment law, then Wikipedia policy says it's not acceptable content. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 03:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia OFFICIAL POLICY:

1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources. 2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be challenged or removed by any editor. 3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.

If your content doesn't meet the verifiability standards, any and every editor that sees it can delete it. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 06:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I take issue with CyranoDeWikipedia's point 4: The high tech industry is cyclical—though usually at a different frequency and phase than agriculture and fishing, but still has significant ups and downs. Don't forget the big layoffs in the mid 1980s at Tektronix and HP, the dot com dot bomb 5 years ago, and Intel's announcement last week to reduce its workforce by 10,500 jobs. I think I'm forgetting one around 1992. If so, it would seem to cycle every 6-8 years. What kind of cycling does fishing and agriculture exhibit? — EncMstr 07:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I have an MBA. My use of "cyclical" is textbook. Every industry has a business cycle. This should not be confused with the traditional use of "cyclical" I cited. In professional business journals it is understood that the two terms are different and is quite often clear in the context of the report. The mass media is somewhat sloppy in their use of the term which can lead to confusion. Perhaps I am wasting my time on Wikipedia. For example, I had tried to point out in the page on the Rome TV series that the writers use of Latin was incorrect, despite their producing a documentary stressing the series authenticity, and was jumped on. It is really quite a shame because Wikipedia has some very good articles on the Latin language. Unfortunately, The Colbert Report has attracted a lot of trolls to this page and trolls, among other things, are very ignorant creatures.CyranoDeWikipedia 02:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

It's a shame that universities don't recall MBAs as readily as auto makers recall defective cars. You can argue about what the definition of "is" is, but companies hire workers when it's profitable to employ them, and discharge them when it's unprofitable. State law doesn't change the economic facts of life. If Company X doesn't have enough orders to require 3500 workers, only 2000 workers, state law requiring them to continue to pay 3500 workers is going to force them to leave the state, or go out of business entirely. Some people call that "exporting jobs".

The other Cyrano was constantly dueling, possibly because he was gay. If you continue your fight against the core policies Wikipedia is built upon, yes, you are wasting your time here. There's no evidence that there was a Roxane in his life, but who knows, maybe you could find one for yours.... ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 03:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

List of issues resulting in the noncompliant

On September 13, 2006 (in this edit), User:ClairSamoht put {{noncompliant}} at the top of this article. If there are issues not covered by the existing templates (such as the {{sources}} in the History section or the various uses of {{fact}}), please list them here (and if discussion is warranted, have a separate section for that). That would help to ensure that open issues can be addressed. 66.167.137.46 19:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC).

Due to the lack of response, I removed the tag; editors can feel free to re-tag, of course, though it would be more constructive to list actionable issues. --ScottMainwaring 17:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)