Talk:Protofour

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The last two sentances seem at odds with each other:

>P4 is only used to potray railways of the United Kingdom in Britain. >However the 5'3" Irish broad gauge can also modelled in 4 mm scale >with 21 mm gauge track to P4 standards.

Ireland is not a part of the UK. So saying P4 is only used to represent UK prototypes is at odds. Also "United Kingdom in Britain" is meaningless. So I'm changing this. Just wanted to note the reason for the change.

Rextanka 06:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC) rextanka

"Ireland is not a part of the UK." -- I think you'll find that most of the northern part of the island of Ireland is part of the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.221.83.161 (talk) 21:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Link to the Clag site?

http://www.clag.org.uk/p4standards.html

has information about p4 track and wheel standards. This info is also on the S4 site, however I think it might be useful ot have a link to the CLAG or the Scalefour page (I think CLAG is Central London Area Group of the Scalefour soc) site since it has useful information for modellers using p4 standards. Better still might be to actually place some of the information and diagrams about the standards on this page since I think it helps to explain what P4 really is.

Rextanka 06:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC) rextanka

Some pictures would be good

The 00 gauge page has some pictures, it would be good to get some high quality pictures of P4 models on this page.

Rextanka 16:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC) rextanka

Removed from Rail transport modelling scales

The following information was removed from Rail transport modelling scales. Some of it may be useful to this article.

During the early 1960s a group of British modellers, (known as the Model Ralway Study Group, comprising Dr Bernard Weller, Malcolm S Cross, Joe Brook-Smith) evolved a finescale standard at 4 mm to the foot with near exact scale track and wheels. The development included a system of construction that took much of the guesswork out of modelling and challenged much of the accepted modelling wisdom of the time. The MRSG formalised the standards and through a Management Committee exercised strict control over the manufacture of specialised parts to these standards, given the level of manufacturing technology available at the time to a small manufacturing plant with a limited demand for its output. There was considerable resistance from some quarters of the modelling press who thought that this new, very fine standard would require to be laid on plate glass to avoid derailments! (We now know that to be unduly pessimistic). The Protofour Society was formed in 1968 as a forum for modellers interested in the new format and modelling techniques developed by the MRSG. The Executive Committee of the Society, formed from its membership, became increasingly concerned about the restriction of supplies from the single appointed manufacturer and sought to increase the reach of Protofour to other manufacturers. Uneasy about releasing the standards to an uncontrollable manufacturing base and the effect this might have on the still developing standards and techniques which were ground-breaking at the time, the Management Committee resisted the call and in 1974 sacked the Executive Committee. Recognising that the Protofour Standard was close to scale, but in one dimension, namely the crossing flangeway gauge, was not exactly correct (but had been specifically designed into the Protofour standard to recognise the likelihood of layouts that were much foreshortened to the prototype), a modeller, Ray Hammond, proposed and developed a standard based on the exact scale crossing flangeway scale. With several colleagues, including members of the sacked Protofour Society Executive Committee, a separate group, the Scalefour Society, was formed in the 1970s promoting this even finer exact scale standard called S4, but encouraged a wider group of manufacturers to support its aims. In the 1980s, both societies merged, adopting the original P4 standards by which it continues to be known, but encouraging a wide manufacturing base and retaining the society name of Scalefour. The "P" stands for "Proto[type]" and these standards are intended to be applied to any prototype gauge in 4 mm scale, which for standard gauge track happens to work out at 18.83 mm. P4 standards have also been used to depict narrow and broad gauge railways on a variety of model gauges. In the UK many kits include parts to enable them to be built to 00, EM or P4 gauges and there is a flourishing "cottage industry" of small business kit and parts suppliers. Of the original MRSG, Malcolm Cross died in Australia in 2004 and Bernard Weller died in the UK in 2005. The original manufacturer, Studiolith Limited, ceased trading in the UK in 1981. The Joe Brook-Smith riveted track construction system continues to be adopted by a large proportion of finescale modellers. A short-lived company, Trans-Europe Models Ltd, took over supplies of key components including sales to retail outlets (Studiolith had been mail order or exhibition sales only), until this company ceased trading after which Bernard Weller set up Exactoscale Limited which he ran with his wife until his untimely death in 2005. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabdiel (talk • contribs) 14:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge?

I'm not sure if Irish P4 justifies a separate article. It might be better to have all the info in one article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabdiel (talk • contribs) 17:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Good idea! Sepreating the subject of P4 Standards doesn't seem right to me - it's already a niche interest so having them all discussed in the one place would be beneficial I think Zozzie 9t9 (talk) 11:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by "prototype"?

Is this some form of jargon? I can't work out what it means. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.237.157.198 (talk) 14:09, 4 March 2020 (UTC)