Talk:Pakenham line/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Steelkamp (talk · contribs) 16:46, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I'll start the review tomorrow. Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

checked the article and seems stable and neutral currently NotOrrio (talk) 02:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

On first glance, this is much better than the Cranbourne article so it won't be a quickfail. Steelkamp (talk) 16:48, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I look forward to acting on your feedback over the next ~7 days. HoHo3143 (talk) 01:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Good article criteria

Well written

• I've removed "coloured light blue on the map" from the lead as it is just a minor detail and not important enough for the lead. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

  I disagree with this. The North South MRT line article (a good article) has this in the lead section. I think it should be kept. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I would prefer if that was gone as well. Good articles aren't infallible. Unless the line is colloquially called the "light blue line" or something, the colour has little practical impact. Steelkamp (talk) 06:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Thanks for hearing me out- I agree with your perspective now. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• A $15 billion upgrade package have included the replacement of sleepers... This needs to be reworded to improve the grammar. The main problem is the word "have" which only applies to plurals. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:42, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Metro Trains Melbourne is the current operator as well as a former operator according to the infobox. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:40, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• As a general rule, you should link things already linked in the lead the first time they are mentioned in the body as the body should be able to stand on its own without the lead. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Remove the external link to Vicsig.net as per WP:FANSITE, which says that external links to "Blogs, personal web pages and most fansites (negative ones included), except those written by a recognized authority" should be avoided. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:38, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Thanks for removing the notes section of the stations table. I was going to tell you to remove it. Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Ok. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• However, the ageing system had undermined the rail reliability on and frequencies on the line. What does "rail reliability mean? Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y I've clarified it. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• The system is being delivered by CPB Contractors and Bombardier Transportation will deliver the $1 billion Rail Systems Alliance, which includes the roll-out of high capacity signalling and communications system on the rail network. This sentence should be reworded as it's confusing. Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Split the sentences and reworded. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:52, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• "Caulfield to Dandenong" skyrail project. Are the quotes necessary here? Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Good point. Gone through and removed them. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• What is "Power signalling"? Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Aka electrified signalling. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:15, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Previously, the line was only served by regional passenger trains connecting Gippsland to Melbourne. What is this referring to? The section between Pakenham and Pakenham East? It should be clarified (and a source added as well). Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed with source added. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• with all trains running express between Hallam and Dandenong as a result of the closure. Isn't it unnecessary to say this. Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I suggest changing 21st century to the specific decade(s) or even years. Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

  Why? It makes more sense to have each section be 19th, 20th, and 21st century, then inside each section the paragraphs are split up into groupings. For example in the 21st century, there are two paragraphs- 2000s and 2010s. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:06, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I'm confused by the phrase Despite the investments because the station closed in 2002 but the development plan was from 2013 so surely the investment happened after 2013 and had nothing to do with the General Motors station closing. Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Good point. Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• In 2018, a new depot opened at Pakenham East Depot. Change this to In 2018, the Pakenham East Depot opened. Steelkamp (talk) 16:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Changed. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:00, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I think it would be best if the future section went directly below the history section. This fixed the problem of the Metro Tunnel being mentioned several times before the Metro Tunnel is explained. Steelkamp (talk) 08:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 9:11, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Verifiable with no original research

• There are several errors such as "Victoria, Public Transport" and "News, Mirage" which I assume arise from using the automated reference generator in the visual editor. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 11:00, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Night service doesn't operate on Sunday nights right? You could replace On Friday nights and weekends, services run 24 hours a day with On Friday and Saturday nights, services run all night. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 11:01, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Infobox says the line is disabled access = yes. Does this apply to all the stations or just some? Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y I got rid of it. Accessibility is at some stations only, whilst not at others. This is mentioned on their specific wikipedia pages. HoHo3143 (talk) 11:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• There are some inconsistencies between the service described in the infobox and lead and the service described in the network and operations section. For example, 20-30 off peak vs 20 minutes off peak. 5 minutes and 10 minutes during peak vs 6 to 12 minutes during peak. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 11:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Medium is a self-published source and is not reliable as per WP:MEDIUM. Steelkamp (talk) 06:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

  What does medium mean? Don't know what you are talking about. HoHo3143 (talk) 7:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

https://medium.com/the-gauge/comeng-retirement-b6138e8ac83b. This website is used as a source. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed with a more reliable government source. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• Is there a better source that can be used than https://appassets.mvtdev.com/map/41/l/2803/421798.pdf. It's in the lead section, so does a source need to be there at all? Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y I've fixed the source with one from PTV. I usually have sources in the lead section. No harm in doing so. HoHo3143 (talk) 1:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• What makes https://www.vrhistory.com/ reliable? Seems to be a self published fan site. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. I've gone through and removed all self published fan sites. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• What makes http://www.vicrailstations.com/Orbost/General_Motors/General_Motors.html reliable? Seems to be a self published fan site. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. I've gone through and removed all self published fan sites. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• "Wayback Machine" (PDF). web.archive.org. 25 March 2012. Retrieved 19 December 2022. This ref formatting needs to be improved. You need more information than just "Wayback machine". Website should = Department of Transport and Planning. Title should be The Victorian Transport Plan. There needs to be a page number as that is a fairly long pdf. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• What makes https://wongm.com/ reliable? Seems to be a self published fan site. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. I've gone through and removed all self published fan sites. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:19, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• "What year did your railway station open?" is currently duplicated over two references. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:22, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• http://www.vicrailways.com/home/em-class is currently not working. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:22, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• In general, reference formatting should be improved. There is a huge inconsistency to how the references are formatted. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Thanks for letting me know. I've gone through and removed all self published fan sites. I think I've removed most blogs except for Daniel Bowens one. He is one of the most respected transport commentators in Melbourne, who is always interviewed on TV and therefore what he says is almost always correct. If there are any more referencing problems, let me know. HoHo3143 (talk) 2:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree that Daniel Bowen is a self-published expert and meets the requirements at WP:RS/SPS. Steelkamp (talk) 06:11, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Acknowledged. HoHo3143 (talk) 7:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• https://oakleighshops.com.au/community/a-brief-history-of-oakleigh/ doesn't seem very reliable to me. You could probably find a source from at the time on https://trove.nla.gov.au/. Steelkamp (talk) 06:11, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 7:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• In 1877, the Pakenham line began operations from Oakleigh to Bunyip, as part of the main line to Gippsland. The reference here doesn't verify this claim. No mention of Oakleigh or Bunyip. Steelkamp (talk) 02:31, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:38, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

• Could reference 12 have page numbers added? Steelkamp (talk) 02:31, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Added. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

• There seems to be something wrong with ref 16. It is all in bold. Steelkamp (talk) 08:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Fixed. No idea why that happened HoHo3143 (talk) 9:02, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage

• A few sentences on disabled access could be added since you touch on that in the infobox. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 11:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

The paragraphs you added have no references. Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Forgot to add them in- added them now. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• You should mention the former operators somewhere in the Network and operations section. Currently they are only in the infobox. Steelkamp (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Done. HoHo3143 (talk) 12:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• No mention of the Dandenong railway line triplication? Steelkamp (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

  This basically isn't going ahead- does it still need to be included? HoHo3143 (talk) 8:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• the rolling stock will consist of 70 High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT), once fully delivered. This implies to me that there are other trains used currently that are being phased out. Is this the case? If not, it needs to be reworded. Steelkamp (talk) 06:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

  All of the rolling stock used on the Pakenham line specifically is the HCMT. The government has ordered a total of 70 HCMTs for use on the Pakenham, Cranbourne, Airport, and Sunbury lines. They have been fully rolled out on the Pakenham and Cranbourne lines, and from 2025 the Sunbury, and 2029 the airport line. Right now they have some extras that have already been delivered in preparation for this line. HoHo3143 (talk) 7:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

• A number of semi-automated features are included in the HCMT design, including the capacity for low-speed shunting by remote control and for trains to be started without the presence of a driver. The trains will also automatically estimate the passenger load, and the reading can be accessed remotely.[3] Furthermore, the HCMTs will include "stopping aids" to maximize accuracy of the position of train's arrival at platforms. The trains are powered by a 1500 V Overhead Catenary System, the same as all other electrical systems on Melbournes railway network. Unlike other Melbourne trains, the HCMTs feature electronic maps and passenger information screens to update passengers on live information about their train.[4] I feel like this is all unnecessary detail on the HCMT for this article. Steelkamp (talk) 06:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Removed. HoHo3143 (talk) 7:30, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

• The section from South Yarra to Hawksburn was duplicated from opening, ... This implies the original section was single tracked. I suggest changing the first sentence to In 1877, the Pakenham line began operations from Oakleigh to Bunyip, as part of the single-tracked main line to Gippsland.

Y Changed. HoHo3143 (talk) 8:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

• There is no mention of the City Loop in the history section. Steelkamp (talk) 08:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Y Added it in. HoHo3143 (talk) 10:30, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• There seems to be no information on patronage. Steelkamp (talk) 08:19, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

  The department of transport doesn't release line patronage, instead only releasing individual station and entire mode statistics. HoHo3143 (talk) 9:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

Stable

Illustrated, if possible

General

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.