Talk:Park Chung Hee

Intro too long?

The current intro appears to be too long at 7 long paragraphs. The info there is good; can it be condensed? Holidayruin (talk) 18:51, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Holidayruin: I gave my shot at it, let me know what you think! LaunchOctopus (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

@LaunchOctopus: I made some minor changes but I think that was good work! I moved a lot of the content that used to be in the Introduction to the "Legacy" section, which also needs work. Holidayruin (talk) 13:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Lead section needing rewrite

The lead section is too long, but more importantly the encyclopaedic tone is not right. Information in the lead section about Park’s presidency, the assasisantion and its aftermath, and the later ‘democrisation’ of SK should be elsewhere 2407:7000:9F9D:5100:780A:3823:DFC5:5288 (talk) 09:18, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

"Po Zhengxi" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Po Zhengxi has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 10 § Po Zhengxi until a consensus is reached. 747pilot (talk) 23:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 9 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks (contribs) 19:41, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

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Park Chung-hee → Park Chung Hee – Suggesting this move under WP:COMMONNAME. "Park Chung Hee" is the most common name per Google ngram. Its also the name used by Encyclopaedia Britannica and academic sources (For example, see this search on jstor of Park Chung-hee). :3 F4U (they/it) 03:05, 9 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 11:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment note that Britannica is unreliable per WP:BRITANNICA. EpicPupper (talk) 22:34, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

  No, it's not. It's not colored red on the table, it's yellow, indicating no consensus—not generally unreliable. BhamBoi (talk) 22:41, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

  In addition to what BhamBoi has stated, WP:COMMONNAME states that Other encyclopedias are among the sources that may be helpful in deciding what titles are in an encyclopedic register, as well as what names are most frequently used. I'm not using Encyclopaedia Britannica as a source for any claim, but as an example of what other encyclopedias have used in their article titles. See also Oxford's World Encyclopedia which uses the same spelling.

  Side note: One of the best examples of the way Korean names are romanized differently for different people is the Nobel Peace Prize entry for Kim Dae-jung, which in the same article, uses "Park Chung Hee", "Kim Dae-jung", and "Syngman Rhee". :3 F4U (they/it) 00:11, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Korea has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 11:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment what of the other variant spellings? Park Chunghee, Park Chung-Hee -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 18:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

  Neither of them are nearly as popular as the other two variants. The spelling I'm proposing was the accepted way to transliterate Korean names when Park was in power. "Park Chung-hee" is how contemporary South Korean names are generally transliterated (the way most South Korean names are transliterated on Wikipedia) and "Park Chunghee" is the transliteration the South Korean government is trying to promote. :3 F4U (they/it) 19:48, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First lines of intro

I'm not certain how to rephrase it, but the first few lines of the intro need to be changed to be clearer to the reader that Park was a dictator. I'm aware it comes up later, but simply stating that he was the President without context, provides an inaccurate perspective. :3 F4U (they/it) 01:45, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Date format

At time of writing, the date format is currently DMY, but the page started off as MDY. It looks like someone changed it possibly around the mid 2010s (theres so many versions of the page and I don't really want to look for the exact one). Looks like no post was made on the talk page.

I'm going to revert it back to MDY because that's what it originally was. There's no real standard for date format for Korea-related articles, we just stick to established standard. The same applies for the Assassination of Park Chung Hee page; I will change that back too. toobigtokale (talk) 10:46, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Arikawa's name

Hi, question. Is Arikawa's given name (圭一) read as "Keiichi" or "Kazuichi"?

Chong-Sik Lee writes Kazuichi, but I'm seeing Keiichi on other websites (게이이치), and searching name dictionaries shows only Keiichi or Kiyokazu as possible readings. Lee's book has some minor transliteration/romanization mistakes that I've spotted so far, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's incorrect here. toobigtokale (talk) 08:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Reliability of Cho and Lee

Just a heads up for people who are interested. Cho Gabje and Chong-Sik Lee are seemingly two of the most significant biographers of Park. Cho for conducting so many interviews and writing an exhaustive multi-volume history, and Lee for writing one of the only general biographies of Park in English (bewildering that there aren't more).

Both of their works have issues; the following are my opinions but I think these are reasonably shared and agreeable views.

Cho:

• Has a reputation for being a bit of a right-wing dingbat
  • He has countless repetitive rant-y videos on his YouTube channel that are both mildly entertaining and a little worrying
  • He overtly sings Park's praises in the biography and elsewhere
• Despite this, Lee and a few other scattered sources I've read agree that the broad strokes of Cho's work are exceptionally good. He's a prolific writer and historian, and conducted a ton of incredible interviews. Still, it's grating to ignore the obvious POV issues in his work. Not to mention the frustration from the non-linear timeline of the biography

Lee:

• Lee also has POV issues; openly critical of Park in his biography. It's very frequent, not just on a few pages
• I've caught a number of small mistakes in the work, to the point where I frequently fact check Lee's work using Cho's (Lee seemingly based much of the book on Cho's research)
• Lee also engages in a lot of speculation, and sometimes doesn't make clear how much is his speculation and how much is from what source material.
  • I've found myself skipping entire pages because they're speculative

I'm still working on fleshing this article out, may take a year. I'm visiting a few places Park lived next week, looking forward to it. toobigtokale (talk) 13:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Toobigtokale,

I appreciate your efforts trying to flesh this article out. What are your thoughts on the book by Byung-Kook Kim and Ezra Vogel? It's a collection of writings on Park written by different people that mainly talk about his presidency. It's somewhat hard to legally find online, but I have a copy and have started reading it. Dantus21 (talk) 22:05, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I think it's among the top resources on Park in English. It's unfortunately not a unified or comprehensive biography though... When we arrive at that section of Park's life, may need to rely on a combination of Cho's writing and that text. toobigtokale (talk) 22:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Additional notes, Lee's biography doesn't seem to cover Park's presidency.

I've only skimmed this book so far, but Carter J. Eckert's Park Chung Hee and Modern Korea also covers parts of Park's life. My impression was that it's more a book on an overall framework for understanding South Korea though, and still not a comprehensive biography. toobigtokale (talk) 22:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Also I made a wikipedia article about Cho's biography: Spit on My Grave toobigtokale (talk) 22:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Dating of lead photo

The lead photo doesn't have a date attached to it. The page on Park's assassination states that it was taken in 1973, but it is uncited. Does anyone know when this photo was taken? Dantus21 (talk) 22:15, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The copyright on it in general is I think sus. I've been eyeing it as something to fix in the future, but list of things to do on this article is already long. I'm easily distracted so have been working on other things since, but this is still very much on my radar. toobigtokale (talk) 22:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I found this portrait below from this chart on Wikimedia Commons. The chart would probably be considered a derivative work in most cases, but since it was uploaded by the Korean government themselves under a CC license (note it has a ticket too), I think it safe to use the portrait from it. I’ll go ahead and add it to the article but if you’re still worried about it feel free to revert.

Dantus21 (talk) 01:00, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

As a sidenote, my original question was concerning when the photo was taken, not its licensing status, although I'm glad you brought that up anyway, as I had no idea about it initially. Dantus21 (talk) 01:11, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Please go ahead and add the pic, I may investigate more thoroughly in a few months but it's probably safe for use. Sorry I switched topics a bit; not sure when the other photo was taken, wanted to emphasize that it probably shouldn't be there anyway 😅 Fortunately this pic is in color so it's better regardless. toobigtokale (talk) 01:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)