Talk:Petrobras 36

Quote

The quote seems ridiculous in its assertions and suspicious in that the footnote does not point to the source but instead an article on quality control for vaccine problems at Chiron. Is there a citation for this quote? (Reply: The footnote points to a page where the quote is listed at the very bottom.)

http://www.incose.org/northstar/2001Slides/FutronRisk.ppt

The quote is on the slides at the end. This is a widely quoted piece and I doubt it is wrong.--Rjstott 03:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

It is widely quoted but incredibly hard to verify. As part of an assignment I did on QA, I scoured everywhere in an attempt to verify this statement. It's wide disemination seems to stem from one source unquestionally quoting another (domino effect) rather than multiple confirmation of it's veracity. The closest you get is the media statement saying that it's from a Petrobras executive - which is very hard to verify. What makes it even more interesting is that (as far as I'm aware) Petrobras has yet to deny the quote's puported origin. I've emailed them to find out. Dreadpirate Roberts 03:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Encyclopedic content must be attributable to a reliable source

The issue that I had initially with the P36 article, and still do with the re-written content (Dreadpirate Roberts 03:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC), is that it cannot be attributed to a reliable source. The issue is not whether the article could be true, it is that it cannot be substantiated as being true from a reliable source - a fundumental requirement of this site!

The sinking arguably stemmed from 'quality' management failures, but to link those failures to an unsubstantiated quotation is miss-leading and detracts from the lessons that the reports (see links 'Petrobras P36' below) point to. I have added back the disputed page banner in accordance with the purpose of the banner.

Aus0408 01:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

fairlead box

What does a fairlead box do on an Oil Rig? I'm guessing guide the drill pipe or the mooring lines. I was going to link it to Fairlead, but it seems like I'd have some more 'splaining to do there.--J Clear 15:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

fairlead box reply

P36 had a number of 'boxes' on the pontoons and on the columns. The pontoon boxes were added in Canada to give more submerged buoyancy to allow extra load on the platform. They did this, but reduced stability at any given draught by the effect of the increased submerged volume. This is because the measure of returning lever has the form BM = I/V where I is the second moment of waterplane area and V is the submerged volume.

As built, 'Spirit of Columbus' - later P36 - had so-called stability boxes on the columns. These increased submerged volume but because they continued above the waterline they acted to increase stability (at all angles until the tops were submerged). The mooring fairleads were mounted on the lower part of these boxes so they appear to have been called 'fairlead boxes'.

Also during modification in Canada the 'stability boxes' on the columns were extended around the columns and upwards. Unfortunately they were'nt extended upwards sufficiently to provide the stability needed to counter the flooding of the pump room and other column spaces that sank her.

Subsea 12:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Petrobras P36

The Petrobras P36 accident, which resulted in the loss of the vessel and the lives of 11 crew, is appalingly reported on this site as an accident caused by Quality Assurance/Quality Control failures. The article implys that QA/QC failures occured, presumably during conversion of the vessel from the Spirit of Columbus (sister vessel to the Jake Bates, later used in the accident investigation) to the Petrobras P36. However, a relatively simple search of the Petrobras site will uncover the following link.

Petrobras Investor Relations: Presentations, 2001 [[1]]

This site contains the preliminary and final reports on the accident, as well as the preliminary and final DNV Verification reports for the investigation. These are also at the direct links below.

Preliminary report [[2]]

Final report [[3]]

Preliminary DNV Verification report [[4]]

Final DNV Verification report [[5]]

Interesting report summary [[6]]

Aus0408 00:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the point here is what the Petrobras report says, but whether the origin of the quote can be verified. Even given the findings of the Petrobras report, the quote could still be legitimate. Therefore I have re-written the article in a way that properly outlines the nature of the quote. Dreadpirate Roberts 03:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Appalling Reported

Thanks for the links - I highly recommend reading the reports - even if they are only slideshow summaries.

What would be useful is a proper citation to the initial quotation. It was quoted in some press, Eg. by News Weekly (run by a socially conservative) but I've not yet found a direct citation.

Interestingly, the final report recommends, ironically, that Petrobas needs to:

Systematize the process for the management of the changes to ensure that the project alterations are only implemented after the completion of risk analysis, up-dating of documentation, the approval from the appropriate authorities and training of the operating and maintenance team.

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