Talk:Philippine drug war

Requested move 14 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Unfortunately, this discussion has stalled despite 3 relists, multiple discussion advertisements elsewhere, and several proposed names. No consensus on any of the proposals has emerged. Indeed, several users have proposed creating other articles in lieu of renaming this one, which further complicates the issue. I would suggest this be revisited in a few months (say, around December/January?) to see if enough has changed to justify a rename. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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Philippine drug war → ? – "Philippine drug war" is not the WP:COMMONNAME. Sources either describes this campaign as a "war on drugs" or a "drug war" (without the adjective "Philippine", and if they do add a modifier it is "Philippines' "drug war"). Its also occasionally called as "Duterte's Drug War".

Also there is uncertainty on how current President Bongbong Marcos would approach this campaign so its difficult to determine the end of the "Philippine drug war" since the country has always been launching campaigns against illegal drugs even before Duterte. Though admittedly minus the notoriety of Oplan Tokhang. Marcos is unlikely to explicitly state to end the drug war and announced a policy shift (PNA)

I suggest renaming this article to (but not limited to):

• Philippine war on drugs (2016–2022)
• War on drugs of Rodrigo Duterte (2016–2022) Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 12:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:06, 28 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 22:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Also I emphasize that there is no need for this article name to be consistent with the Bangladesh drug war and the Mexican drug war.09:51, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Tambayan Philippines has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 12:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I'd like to put forth the following suggestions:

• Philippine drug war (2016-2022)
• War on drugs in the Philippines (2016-2022)
• Duterte administration's war on drugs (2016-2022) — maybe the year range isn't needed in this case

Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 13:06, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Has the drug war ended? Why are we assigning end dates? Howard the Duck (talk) 20:46, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck

The situation is ambigious. Officially the "war on drugs" is still being pursued by President Marcos' administration but with a shift to rehabilitation and arrests rather than continuing the "Tohkhang" policy. The requested move is to provide a clearer scope on this article - or to provide some sort of stability for the lack of better term.

While the country has this hardline stance against drugs for decades already even before Duterte, the drug war of Duterte in particular has gained international notoriety and significant domestic support.

We don't know yet how Marcos would actually implement his own campaign and the operation is overwhelmingly associated with Duterte.

Also updated the article up to this point in time including President Marcos' decisions on the country's campaign against illegal drugs which would be relevant irregardless of the result of this move request. Rename the relevant section accordingly depending on the result of this request. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 16:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

If it's ambiguous, we shouldn't be assigning start or end dates. The "Philippine drug war" is happening even at the time of Noli Me Tangere. Now, if this article is focusing on the drug war under Rodrigo Duterte, well, there's your descriptive title, sorta like martial law under Ferdinand Marcos. Ambivalent between "drug war" vs "war on drugs" but Duterte himself probably likes the latter term more. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Scratch that; forget about "descriptive titles," as the most popular term for the drug war during Duterte's term is Operation Tokhang. Even Rappler uses it in its articles. (I used Rappler here as an example, as they are more of an "internationalist" in approach, vs other local media. Notice they used "Haiyan" instead of "Yolanda", and that they use "drug war" in most article titles, but inevitably inserts "Tokhang" in prose anyway.) Howard the Duck (talk) 17:37, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I think that the PNP/PDEA Operation Tokhang or Oplan Tokhang should be a separate article since it is indeed what gained notoriety. Besides, most of this article's contents revolve around that specific operation, while there are barely represented content on the Barangay Drug Clearing program and the PNP's Recovery and Wellness Program, which have been part of Duterte's war on drugs. Perhaps detailed content (such as deaths during raids incidents) pertaining to Oplan Tokhang should be moved on its own article, while this article should summarize Tokhang and include summaries on all past presidencies drug policies/programs. –Sanglahi86 (talk) 19:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Though again. As noted some time ago the "war on drugs" is not limited to Tokhang. So I'm not keen on renaming this article that. Tokhang is part of Oplan Double Barrel along with "Oplan High-Value Target". Double Barrel don't include the socioeconomic component of the war on drugs.

The Illegal drug trade in the Philippines article should be expanded for the more "general" war on drugs.

There is potential for a separate standalone article on Tokhang though. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:54, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

On the second point, it would be more apt to create an article on the Drug policy of the Philippines for the "general" war on drugs by various administrations. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 04:29, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Most people associate "Tokhang" with the drug operations of the Duterte administration, even such operations formally did not happen under the "Oplan Tokhang" name. AFAIK, Oplan Double Barrel came after Tokhang but people would stare you blankly if you tell them about "Oplan Double Barrel". Howard the Duck (talk) 13:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• Move to "Operation Tokhang", formal suggestion, for the drug operations under the Duterte administration. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:59, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

air pollution

b 112.204.2.89 (talk) 00:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Esp

Who is involved in drugs war 143.44.165.105 (talk) 09:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 22 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Several different options were presented. None of them formed a policy-based consensus. No prejudice against a new discussion being opened at any time. (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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Philippine drug war → War on drugs in the Philippines – As per previous move requests. The drug operations was never called "Philippine drug war" as in the proper noun. The WP:COMMONNAME for this was Duterte's "War on drugs". It is the termed preferred in the latest Quad committee hearings.

I will forego any questions on the scope of the article which has diluted the previous discussion. Let's just focus if "Philippine drug war" and "War on drugs in the Philippines" is the most apt title for this article. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 08:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 09:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 16:59, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Move to "Oplan/Operation Tokhang", still the most well-known name of the drug war during Duterte's presidency. No other descriptive name comes close; this is a no-contest. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:45, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

  Oplan Tokhang remains to be a component of the whole drug war. (See PNA), Oplan Double Barrel seems to be more accurate since there are drug deaths (and operations) outside Tokhang. The problem however is that this may potentially exclude parts of the "war on drugs" outside the written policy of the PNP in light of the Leonardo/Garma revelations. While other administrations including this one has their anti-drug policy. Duterte's for better or for worse became THE Philippines war on drugs or the Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 08:44, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

  Let me repeat what I said in the last WP:RM: "people would stare you blankly if you tell them about "Oplan Double Barrel'." To put it bluntly, The term "Operation Tokhang" is used to encompass the entire drug war under the Duterte administration. There are even statements that" kung si Duterte pa din presidente, na-Tokhang na ito." (If Duterte was still president, he would have been tokhanged); nobody uses the term "Double Barrel" for this purpose. Let's be serious. There can be another article for what the government considers as the actual "Operation Tokhang", such as the first part of the drug war before Double Barrel, but for WP:RS, the drug war is Operation Tokhang. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:29, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

  If we go by WP:RS, most sources refer does refer to the whole thing as the (Duterte's/Philippine) "war on drugs". So my preferred title would be the "War on drugs in the Philippines" not Oplan Double Barrel. Which also puts aside the other can of worms that stalled the previous move request (what to do with Marcos' "continuation" of the war of drugs).Hariboneagle927 (talk) 04:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

  I agree on "War on drugs in the Philippines". As for Marcos' "continuation" of the war of drugs, they have a "Buhay Ingatan, Droga'y Ayawan" (BIDA) program. Sanglahi86 (talk) 13:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

  Choices for descriptive titles:

  1. Rodrigo Duterte's war on drugs (May include prior drug war in Davao when Duterte was mayor)
  2. Philippine drug war under Rodrigo Duterte (nationwide war during Duterte's presidency)
  3. 2016–2022 Philippine drug war (Same as #2, only without Duterte's name)

  The current descriptive title may encompass Marcos era operations, or indeed even during the times of Jose Rizal's Noli Me Tangere. The suggestion in this RM is even worse, as it's longer and less succinct than the current title. Adding "Duterte" in the title restricts the drug war when Duterte was in charge (choice #1) or the national drug war when Duterte was president (choice #2). Choice #3 can be used if you guys don't want Duterte's name in the title. I prefer "Philippine drug war" vs. "War on drugs in the Philippines" as its shorter. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

  The current title is a result of a poorly thought WP:TITLECON attempt with the Mexican drug war but imo "war on drugs" is the more common and natural term despite having the (US) War on Drugs as a separate article.

  Looks like we cannot separate scope in a potential renaming proposal.

  I would be amenable on the first as it gives something to work on and the rough consensus says that the drug war was mostly a Duterte venture despite human rights group insisting it still "continues" in the current administration. Whatever happened post-presidency (Marcos era and beyond) could be reframed as an "aftermath" without downplaying or whitewashing things that are still going on in the BBM admin.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.