Talk:Piano Concerto (John Ireland)

Requested move 5 May 2015

Temporary freeze of local discussion, until discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#Requested moves are concluded (or archived, whatever comes first), in order to avoid unnecessary duplication of the same discussion. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Piano Concerto (Ireland) → Piano Concerto (John Ireland) – Although Ireland is not a common surname, it is an ambiguous one. Unlike some more famous composers, Ireland is commonly referred to as "John Ireland" in the same way that German is referred to as "Edward German". The move seems to me a no-brainer, but there has been some discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#John Ireland disambiguator and it is only fair to point out that one or two objections to the move have been made there. There are other composers who could benefit from similar treatment but my only concern at the moment is with John Ireland Deb (talk) 15:19, 5 May 2015 (UTC) Support same rationale as other RM In ictu oculi (talk) 21:10, 5 May 2015 (UTC) Speedy close and resolve this issue for all of John Ireland's works via a single RfC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music. --Stfg (talk) 10:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Comment - The reason we can't resolve the issue for all of John Ireland's works via a single RfC is that - as with most composers, artists and other creative personnel - not all of his works have, or are ever likely to have, articles, and not all currently need a disambiguator.Deb (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Rather obviously, my comment refers to whichever of Ireland's works may get articles, now or later. We don't need to foresee which ones, we just need to have a consistent approach, which a single RfC can get for us. Obviously a consistent approach doesn't need to imply that every article needs a disambiguator; the only issue is whether the name disambiguator, when present should contain the "John" or not. Also rather obviously, the discussion about this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#John Ireland disambiguator has not reached consensus, therefore this RM is premature. --Stfg (talk) 14:22, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Perhaps you could restrict yourself to the matter under discussion here, which is whether these two articles should be moved or not. Deb (talk) 14:48, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Perhaps you should confine yourself to addressing what I'm saying, rather than telling me what I'm allowed to say about it. Since I dispute that it is appropriate to confine the discussion to these two articles, obviously that is what I should say. --Stfg (talk) 14:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC) That's not at issue here, so you're wasting your time. The other discussion can continue regardless of what happens here. Deb (talk) 15:07, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Support. Ireland usually refers to either the island or the sovereign state. Zarcadia (talk) 16:29, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Not support. In the context of a piano concerto, "Ireland" cannot possibly mean the island or the sovereign state and can only mean the name of the composer. The only notable composer named Ireland who wrote a notable piano concerto is John Ireland, so a reference to "Ireland" in this context must mean him and only him. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:17, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Comment. As the one who opened this can of worms, I'll add:- "In the context of a piano concerto". I'll wager one hundred pounds to a shilling that one hundred times more people in the world know where and what Ireland is than know what a piano concerto is; and, that of those people who do know what a piano concerto is, less than one in a hundred know of John Ireland's. "Ireland" cannot possibly mean the island or the sovereign state and can only mean the name of the composer. Only to those very few people who've ever heard of John Ireland. Narky Blert (talk) 02:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

This RM is now moot. Your input would be welcome at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#RfC: Composer name disambiguator for articles on works by John Ireland. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 19:22, 8 May 2015 (UTC)