Talk:Polish population transfers (1944–1946)

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There is much to translate from pl wiki. The current article concentrates on Poles in Ukrainian SSR; we need to add on Belarusian and Lithuanian SSRs.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  22:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the events have to be viewed in the context together with the repatriation of the Ukrainians in the opposite direction. So, the article should be something like the Soviet-Polish population transfers (1944-1946). Also, the Wisla action is relevant enough to discuss the relevance in the text body rather than "see also" section. Also, please do not use the article as a coatrack to insert judgmental and opinionated statements. "Soviets killed", "Soviets deported" are facts and have to be given. "Soviets instituted the regime of terror" is a judgment. This is not a newspaper article to use such judgmental statements. --Irpen 22:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

As I remarked to Bandurist, pl:Wysiedlenie Ukraińców z RP do ZSRR 1944-1946 should be translated too. And it is me who has added see also Operation Wisła. But please stop denying the existence of Soviet terror.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  22:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no need to boast who added what, accuse editors in "denialism" and be otherwise combative. I made some specific comment. Please do not stray the discussion off-topic. --Irpen 22:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Soviets instituted the regime of terror

An opinion? The whole human historiography is an opinion and 90% of it is less proved than the existence of Soviet terror.

What is wrong with the quoted sentence? Certainly the Soviets, certainly instituted, certainly the regime of terror. Xx236 (talk) 10:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Soviet-Polish population transfers (1944-1946)

Such title says that the Polish were partners for the Soviet. It was a Soviet-Soviet population transfer, including thousands of prisoners - ethnic Poles - transported to Siberia. Xx236 (talk) 10:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Repatriation is a Soviet propaganda word

We don't use Nazi lawnguage any more (we use the Kristallnacht name to be precise). Why are Soviet lies repeated 55 years after Stalin's death? Xx236 (talk) 10:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a source that repatriation is a propaganda word? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 15:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Either Expulsion of Poles or Repatriation of Germans

Why the same processes are described differently? Xx236 (talk) 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Repatriation of Poles#Move proposal for a wider discussion. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 15:14, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

January 1945 the NKVD arrested 772 Poles in Lviv

What about other arrestations and executions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xx236 (talk • contribs) 15:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

From Expulsion of Germans

"Any transfer of millions of people is likely to be difficult even in the best of circumstances. Attempting a forced transfer amidst the chaos, destruction and privation of postwar Europe could only result in a humanitarian catastrophe." This article doesn't inform about mortality among the repatriated.Xx236 (talk) 11:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[1] Repatriacje i migracje ludności pogranicza w XX wieku Stan badań oraz źródła do dziejów pogranicza polsko-litewsko-białoruskiego --Molobo (talk) 13:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting The term repatriation gives: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/repatriation

Noun

Singular repatriation

1. The process of returning of a person to their country of origin or citizenship. 2. Process of converting a foreign currency into the currency of one's own country

In this case the term is used correctly when considering the fact that Poles were returned to their country of citizenship and as a result should not be changed to expulsion. Bandurist (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The use of the term population transfer is more accurate and neutral. I would suggets that be used.

Population exchange is the transfer of two populations in opposite directions at about the same time. Such exchanges have taken place several times in the 20th century, such as between post-Ottoman Turkey and Greece, and during the partition of India and Pakistan.

Bandurist (talk) 15:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you going to go to Flight and expulsion of Germans from Poland during and after World War II and argue for changing that to German Population transfers (1944-1947)? In this context using "transfers" is just weaseling.radek (talk) 21:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

In fact, throughout the article the word "repatriated" should be changed to "expelled" for accuracy's sake. A source needs to be provided for the claim that this is known as "the first repatriation" and even if that can be done, it should be made clear that this is a Euphemism. Note that the so-called "second repatriation" (and that article needs to be fixed as well) is a different matter as it did involve the RETURN of some Poles from imprisonment in Soviet Gulags to Poland (though not necessarily to those parts of Poland they left).radek (talk) 21:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The term repatriated is accurately used in the article according to the definition given in wikipedia, and although the Soviet Union ( on the suggestion of Khrushchev) introduced measures to "encourage" the Polish settler population to move back to Poland, none were arrsted and deported to Poland, or expelled to my knowledge. In fact most of the Polish sources I have looked at use the term "repatriation".

What would be beneficial is to write a section describing the many sort of actions the Soviets introduced to encourage repatriation back to Poland. Bandurist (talk) 13:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're wrong. According to our definition, Repatriation is "The process of returning a person back to one's place of origin or citizenship. This includes the process of returning refugees or soldiers to their place of origin following a war." On the other hand most of those who had to (and were allowed to) leave USSR were not "returning" to their homes in, say, Danzig or Stettin. They were "leaving" their ancestral homes, which is a different thing. BTW, that article also mentions, that The term repatriation was often used by Communist governments to describe the large scale state sponsored ethnic cleansing actions and expulsion of national groups. Poles born in territories that were annexed by the Soviet Union, (refered to by Poles as the Kresy) although deported to the State of Poland, were settled in the annexed former German territories (refered to in Polish as the Regained Territories). In the process they were told that they had returned to their Motherland. //Halibutt 16:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

As I noted at Talk:Repatriation of Poles#Move proposal, I'd support a move for all articles about post-WWII population transfer to such a name (incidentally, this article was poorly moved in violation of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) and should be at Polish population transfers (1944–1946)). While repatriation is commonly used, it is not a correct term (and it is not the only term used). Explusion would be more correct and similar to German articles, but it is IMHO less correct and less neutral than population transfer.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Using 'Population Exchange' is both lying about what happened and mis-using the term, while 'Population Transfer' is just a nicer way to say Ethnic Cleansing, which is what happened to the Germans, Poles, Finns, Romanians and Italians following WWII. People were deported en mass because of their nationality and this was not part of a 'population exchange', it was simply done around the borders Stalin drew with his pencil because those borders were not remotely close to the ethno-linguistic situation of the time (3,300,000 Poles in East Poland and 900,000 or so in the USSR and under 900,000 Ukrainians and Belorussians in Poland), or that prior to the mass murder of Poles in 1932-33 as part of the man-made famine in Ukraine and again in 1937-38 which lowered the number living in the USSR, a figure that would have been 1,250,000-1,300,000 by 1939 based on revised 1926 Soviet census data.

Actual population exchanges where roughly equal numbers of people are exchanged between two nations, were rarely used. One had the Hungarian-Slovak exchange of 75,000 for 75,000 following WWII (however like with the Greco-Bulgarian exchange, a large Hungarian community remained) and the Romanian-Bulgarian exchange of 65,000 Bulgarians for 110,000 Romanians (although virtually all of the Romanians had arrived following 1912 and 75,000 remained near Vidin).

Then you have ethnic cleansing under the guise of population exchanges, the 400,000 Turks for 1,300,000 Greeks being the ethnic cleansing of 900,000 Greeks (technically more given 500,000 were murdered between 1914-1918). Prussia1231 (talk) 02:55, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit, expansion, focus

I have several problems with the way this article looks now. First of all, I believe it is too Ukraine-oriented. Sure, the largest group of deportees came from what became Ukrainian SSR, but Lithuania and Belarus are equally important. Another problem is the title, and I don't mean only the "Polish Population" thingie. I think we should consider something similar to the article on Expulsion of Germans after World War II. Otherwise we'd have to rescope this article and rewrite it completely. Currently it doesn't include info on over 1 million Polish refugees from Western Europe, close to 2 million DPs in Germany, internal migrations and so on. And, sincerely, I believe that's the way it should be, it should be focused specifically on expulsion of Poles from USSR, and not on population transfers.

Anyway, I rewrote the header and sourced it just in case. It's still not perfect, we should state more specifically the scope of this article I believe. Any ideas? //Halibutt 15:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing. I believe there's no point in expanding the "Background" section beyond 20th century. Sure, there were conflicts in 11th century too, but they weren't directly related to what Stalin devised in 1944. //Halibutt 15:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi there, I don't know where to stick this comment (new to this), but the article needs work. Fore example, last paragraph in the background section talks of the "illegal Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact". In international law terms, there was absolutely nothing illegal about this Pact. Two independent states signed a non-aggression pact. Standard practice under IL. What the author of these words probably had in mind was the secret protocol to the pact. But even here, I suspect IL was only broken when the terms of this protocol were carried out, and not before. So, I doubt the mere existence of the protocol was illegal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.24.33.133 (talk) 07:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Wrong title

The article discusses only transfers from the SU. What about Germany, Great Britain, France and many others?Xx236 (talk) 13:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC) See Displaced Persons camp.Xx236 (talk) 08:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

A number of settlers came from Prnjavor, Bosnia and Herzegovina to Bolesławiec.Xx236 (talk) 09:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/issuedetails.aspx?issueid=ac828ab4-ecd4-42e2-a8ed-1de40b170e3b&articleId=d990fc9e-575f-4425-9748-520630c7714a Xx236 (talk) 09:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC) 15 000 - 18 000 came from Yugoslavia to Poland after WWII http://www.wspolnota-polska.org.pl/index.php?id=kw3_4_06 .Xx236 (talk) 09:13, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

French-speaking (mostly) miners from France and Belgium settled in Wałbrzych region. But Edward Gierek, the future 1st secretary, returned to Zagłębie.Xx236 (talk) 11:33, 4 December 2009 (UTC) Čadca gorals came from Bukovina.Xx236 (talk) 11:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Please expand the article with this interesting information. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:42, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

of Kresy as well as the Polish areas annexed by the Soviet Union

It's the same area under two names.Xx236 (talk) 09:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Original research

Well, having read this article, I was left speechless. If the return of Polish occupants-colonists from Western Belarus which was occupied by Poland in 1921 is a population transfer? After Polonization? After tried ethnocide of Belarusians? By the way stop to use that old old Polish invention - "tutejshy", they are Belarusians living in Polessje whose language is something middle between Ukrainian and Belarusian. These old stereotypical Polish falsifications bore me. Vlad fedorov (talk) 16:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I was also left speechless - the expulsion of Poles being reduced to "the return of Polish occupants-colonists". Any sources, numbers? Many szlachta families had 500 years old history.

There was no single "ethnocide" because there didn't exist one Belarusian ethnos in Poland 1920-1939. Even Vlad fedorov admits there existed Poleszuk people at that time. There was also no single "ethnocide" from the Polish state side, because the Polish nationalist, who wanted to Polonize all minorities, lost in 1926 and their politicians were imprizoned in Bereza Kartuska together with Communist terrorists and radical Belarusian nationalists.

1920-1939 religious division (RC - Orthodox) was frequently more important than ethnicity. Describing the situation only from nationalistic POV is POV.Xx236 (talk) 10:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

"tutejshy" isn't any Polish invention and the redirect to Poleszuk is incorrect. Such people lived also in Wilno region.Xx236 (talk) 10:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Besides Vlad you might want to check the other side of the story of osadniks. In Commie propaganda they were a group of hundreds of thousands of Poles who allegedly settled in Belarus and Ukraine after 1920. The Commies portrayed that as colonisation and in their history books basically all Poles to ever live in what was to become Belarusian and Ukrainian SSRs were but "settlers". However, the reality was quite different. Even by broad Soviet definitions that included all people who bought any land in the Kresy between 1920 and 1939 (be them from Poznań or just local peasants from another village near Hrodna or Pinsk), the settlers never numbered more than 140.000 people. Compare that to the number of people actually expelled from their homeland.

Also, one should remember that ethnicity is nothing as fixed as nationalists would like. Just ask your friends in Belarus how many of them have Poles, Jews, Russians or Germans among their ancestors. It's common in Central Europe, certainly so in Poland, Ukraine and Belarus. Me personally I am a Pole, but at the same time I also have Jewish, Lithuanian/Ruthenian and perhaps even Tartar roots. //Halibutt 14:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The 'Polish Colonization' of the territory 'east of the Curzon Line' is a myth. Even during the period of 1569-1795 it was simply an extension of the eastwards movement of the northern European population, as Germans moved into Silesia, Pomerania and East Prussia, Ukrainians moved into the Donetsk region, while the Russians moved into the Volga and Don valleys and into Siberia. Between 1897 and 1931 the number of Poles increased in Northeast Poland but not for the reasons that the Soviet propaganda machine lists. All Soviet 'history' regarding the ethno-linguistic home of the Poles, Germans, Finns and Romanians is skewed in order to try to justify it's illegal gross territorial gluttony achieved via it's Drang nach Westen from 1939-1945 and the subsequent ethnic cleansing, as well as previous crimes against the Poles in 1937-1938.

As for falsifications, the Russian 1897 census was rife with them. It was less accurate than the skewed German 1910 census or the Hungarian 1910 census. Officially you had 390,000 Poles in the governorates of Russian Ukraine in 1897 (including the Crimea), yet when one adds Roman Catholic Ukrainians, Russians and Belorussians, that figure becomes 745,000. The same thing happens when one looks as the governorates of Belarus and Lithuania counting the Wilno Region and Bialystok. Officially there were only around 545,000 Poles, yet when one counts the Roman Catholic Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians, that figure soars to roughly 1,350,000. Granted, Belorussians as an ethno-linguistic group are roughly 10% catholic and 90% Orthodox so that figure is too high to be an accurate reflection of the Polish population, however in those governorates (Grodno, Kovno, Minsk, Mongilev, Vilna and Vitebsk minus Polish Livonia), there were 4,575,000 Orthodox Belorussians so that would still mean you'd have a total of 892,000 Poles, far higher than the 'official' statistics, and this does not include the additional 250,000 converts to Catholicism in 1905, something which would raise the Polish total to 1,110,000 as of 1897. Granted not all of the converts were Poles, yet the 10% figure includes Poles to make up for the 1905 conversion.

You also speak of Ethnocide? What do you call the Polish population of the Belorussian SSR decreasing from 538,881 in 1959 to 417,720 in 1989, when the population of Poland increased from 29,776,000 in 1960 to 38,183,000 in 1990 or by 28.34% and when the population of the Belorussian SSR increased from 8,054,648 in 1959 to 10,151,806 in 1989 or by 26.04%. Based on those increases, there should have been 679,000-691,000 Poles in the Belorussian SSR in 1989. The official figure in 1989 was only 61% of what one would have expected had there not been rampant Sovietization (Russification 2.0).

The truth of the matter is that the 'Wilno Peninsula', roughly comprised of the interwar Powiats of Braslaw, Grodno, Lida, Oszmiana, Postawy, Szczuczyn, Swieciany and Wolkowysk (with slivers of neighboring Powiats, mainly northwest Nowogrodek, northwest Sloniam and western Wolozyn though excluding the cities in all cases) was an overwhelmingly Polish region where those who claimed it made up petty minorities that were easily counter-balanced by Poles living in the Belorussian inhabited lands, both in Poland and in the USSR, as well as the interwar Polish minority in Lithuania. The population living there by its own free will described itself as Polish when not under the thumb of Russification as the 1916 German census shows.

Now with regard to the proof that there was no colonization of the Wilno Peninsula or the Belorussian lands, the following data proves that Between 1918 and 1924, a total of 1,264,731 people were 'repatriated' from the USSR to Poland, broken down by year and ethnicity (pp 101):

• 1918:
• 22,026 Poles
• 54,990 Russians
• 42 Lithuanians
• 5,888 Ukrainians
• 0 Belorussians
• 6 Jews
• 0 Others
• 82,952 Total

1919:

• 193,182 Poles
• 50,192 Russians
• 3,213 Lithuanians
• 32,607 Ukrainians
• 5,628 Belorussians
• 1,528 Jews
• 0 Others
• 286,350 Total

1920:

• 49,894 Poles
• 3,112 Russians
• 1,375 Lithuanians
• 14,090 Ukrainians
• 14,883 Belorussians
• 1,683 Jews
• 0 Others
• 85,037 Total

1921:

• 112,217 Poles
• 8,173 Russians
• 2,168 Lithuanians
• 45,387 Ukrainians
• 300,460 Belorussians
• 13,915 Jews
• 0 Others
• 482,320 Total

1922:

• 66,650 Poles
• 2,760 Russians
• 1,685 Lithuanians
• 22,620 Ukrainians
• 159,858 Belorussians
• 15,294 Jews
• 9,883 Others
• 278,750 Total

1923:

• 17,975 Poles
• 2,068 Russians
• 172 Lithuanians
• 2,118 Ukrainians
• 10,133 Belorussians
• 916 Jews
• 1,192 Others
• 34,574 Total

1924:

• 7,614 Poles
• 1,379 Russians
• 2 Lithuanians
• 173 Ukrainians
• 751 Belorussians
• 97 Jews
• 3,732 Others
• 13,748 Total

Combined:

• 469,558 Poles
• 122,674 Russians
• 8,657 Lithuanians
• 123,883 Ukrainians
• 491,713 Belorussians
• 33,439 Jews
• 14,807 Others
• 1,264,731 Total

Repatriated by September 30, 1921 (time of the 1921 Census):

• 336,487 Poles
• 114,222 Russians
• 5,891 Lithuanians
• 85,168 Ukrainians
• 180,749 Belorussians
• 12,369 Jews
• 0 Others
• 734,886 Total

Repatriated after September 30, 1921 (after the 1921 census):

• 133,071 Poles
• 8,452 Russians
• 2,766 Lithuanians
• 38,715 Ukrainians
• 310,964 Belorussians
• 21,070 Jews
• 14,807 Others
• 529,845 Total

When looking at the census data, there is what appears to be a much higher growth rate for 1921-1931 for the voivodeship of Bialystok (+26.99%), Nowogrodek (+30.38%), Polesia (+51.44%), Wilno (+27.22%) and Wolyn (+32.88%) than in the rest of the country (+14.54%) or Poland as a whole (+18.15%). However that is because of the 1,264,731 individuals, only 734,886 were repatriated to Poland the time of the 1921 census, the remaining 529,845 afterwords. Furthermore, one could not expect all of those who were repatriated to have been settled and registered by the time the census took place, given the sheer number of individuals.

According to data from June 1 1921-December 31 1922, 684,179 individuals were repatriated and settled as follows broken down by voivodeship:

Bialystok:

• 94,488 in 1921
• 59,105 in 1922
• 153,593 in Total

Lublin:

• 40,068 in 1921
• 34,162 in 1922
• 74,230 in Total

Nowogrodek:

• 74,018 in 1921
• 44,679 in 1922
• 118,697 in Total

Polesia:

• 97,085 in 1921
• 60,066 in 1922
• 157,151 in Total

Wilno-Land (minus 'Central Lithuania'):

• 7,510 in 1921
• 22,152 in 1922
• 29,662 in Total

Wolyn:

• 46,344 in 1921
• 26,415 in 1922
• 72,759 in Total

Elsewhere in Poland:

• 48,505 in 1921 (26,234 in Warsaw)
• 29,582 in 1922 (11,664 in Warsaw)
• 78,087 in Total (37,898 in Warsaw)

Total:

• 408,018 in 1921
• 275,161 in 1922
• 684,179 in Total

Of the total population repatriated during 1921, 78.29% went to the 5 northeastern voivodeships, 9.82% to Lublin, and 11.89% Elsewhere in Poland (5.46% if you exclude Warsaw). In 1922, 77.20% went to the 5 northeastern voivodeships, 12.42% to Lublin and 10.38% Elsewhere in Poland (6.14% if you exclude Warsaw).

In short, the number of Eastern Poles increased, however that was due to the deportation of Poles from the USSR, so one had Eastern Poles settle in Eastern Lands that were a part of Poland, thus explaining the growth in numbers and percentage. Also, the Eastern Poles of the Wilno Peninsula were/are the natives, while the majority of the Lithuanians and Belorussians who live there nowadays are colonists settled by Stalin, much the way the Baltics were flooded with Russians and much in the way Northeastern Galicia was subsequently flooded with colonists. Prussia1231 (talk) 06:48, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Conflict between two ethnicities?

The conflict was social, betwen "Ukrainian" aristocrats like Wisniowiecki and Cossacs. Many ethnic Poles emigrated and accepted local culture, joined the Cossacs. Xx236 (talk) 13:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Not "repatriated"

People born in Eastern Poland weren't "repatriated" but expelled.Xx236 (talk) 10:52, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, everything that happened regarding all population movements, with perhaps the exception of the Romanian-Bulgarian and Slovak-Hungarian 'exchanges' is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing with numerous regional instances of genocide, and indeed constituted the largest population movement, voluntary or involuntary, in human history. Prussia1231 (talk) 21:09, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

There seems to be a lack of data on the Polish population living in Ukraine during the interwar period. Piotr Eberhardt indicates 1,750,000 Poles living in Southeast Poland/West Ukraine as of 1931 with a total Polish population of Ukraine within its current borders of 2,250,800 (p 212 and 215). Those populations however, take the Soviet census results of 1926, 1937 (unfinished) and 1939 at face value as legitimate, despite the signs of Soviet census falsification, [in Ukraine]. Prussia1231 (talk) 21:23, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Kresy

How large percentage of the population in the Kresy was Polish before they were expelled?--Oddeivind (talk) 18:47, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Law

Compare Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–50)#Status_in_international_law Xx236 (talk) 12:37, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Piece removed from "Background"

"The XII congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union proposed the deportation of Poles from western Ukraine to the Eastern regions of the USSR to add to the 58,000 Poles who were already living in Siberia following the partitions. A list of 8,352 families marked for deportation was prepared."

Something is screwed up here. XIIth congress could not have possibly discussed deportation of Poles from Western Ukraine, since Western Ukraine was in Poland then. I thought it was a typo (XII vs. XVII), but "XVIIth" has the same problem. Needs verification Staszek Lem (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• The 12 Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was held in April 1923 for 8 days at Moscow. Perhaps some other meeting took place about the Poles ... but not from the Western Ukraine obviously, only from the Eastern Ukraine. I don't know who put it in and why, but if the proposal was real, it must have been submitted after the 1921 Treaty of Riga. The 1935 deportations however, were insignificant in comparison to the 1937 Genocide of Poles in the Soviet Union which is missing from the background altogether. This is unacceptable. Poeticbent talk 05:35, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Border irrelevant

Opinion Border irrelevant is unsourced.

The transfers removed people from Eastern Poland before the new border was legally accepted by Soviet puppets, on the basis of Teheran and Yalta conspiracy. It's relevant. When a family moves from ane flat to another one legal basis of such move is relevant, why not when more than one million moves?Xx236 (talk) 07:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

The leaglity of the transfers should be described like the legality of the expulsion of Germans is. Xx236 (talk) 07:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

This your original research whether it is legality or not. Please provide reverence that borders make it illegal. Of course, the legality or "legality" by Soviet rules will be encyclopedic here, but we need sources. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:31, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Ludmiła Leszczyńska

Ludmiła Leszczyńska was nominated to be the author of Gawryszewski's book. Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Background

The Background is biased, poorly sourced and sometimes misinforms. The first author Bandurist was banned. The subject is Poles in Ukraine, the history of GDL should be added. Many Jews also run away to Poland, some of them continued their trips to Israel, USA or Western Europe.

Polish Prometheism

I have removed from the Background the story about bad Poles. Almost any group in Soviet Union was persecuted, there was no connection betwen real anti_Soviet activities and the persecutions. The alleged crime was POW membership (Polish Military Organistion which existed before the revolution).Xx236 (talk) 11:38, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

The expansion of Catholicism

Cherrypicking. Andrew Bobola was tortured and murdered, so the expansion wasn't simple.Xx236 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

By 1944, the population of ethnic Poles in Western Ukraine was 1,182,100

Wow, who counted them in 1944? Were they asked if they were Polish or UPA/NKVD nominated them?Xx236 (talk) 11:52, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

It could have been an estimate. Was there a source cited and does it say? Wikipedia may cite estimates, not only censuses. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC) ::citation needed Xx236 (talk) 07:44, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

POV

Whole Polish population transfers (1944–46)#From Lithuania section contains POV and glorifies Poland in almost every sentence.

• Calling Vilnius as Wilno in every sentence is POV.
• Providing statistics and not adding sources is POV.
• Claiming that there was a nationalistic policy against Polish people is POV (again – no sources provided).

After reading other sections, I see almost no sources to serious claims. Just plain text – POV. All in all, all article is biased as the editors don't really know what neutral POV is. – Sabbatino (talk) 18:38, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

• Wilno was a Polish city till the Polish Communist puppet government law of 1946. Please contest this using the Soviet-Nazi treaty, which destroyed Lithuania. Please compare Danzig/Gdańsk. Either all cities are named historicall or none, Wikipedia is neutral. The names Memelburg and Memel are found in most written sources from the 13th century onwards, while Klaipėda is found in Lithuania-related sources since the 15th century.
• I have been asking since ages - when the name Vilnius was used the first name, no answer.
• Educated Poles were expelled and uneducated ones kept. According to the sourced Polish article between 45,1% and 51,5% of Poles were able to left Lithuania, the Polish minority still exists in Lithuania (part of it came from Belarus, but many Poles have old family history). [2] "komunistyczne władze Litwy utrudniały repatriację, bojąc się wyludnienia terenów wiejskich." Lithuanian Communist government made the emigration of village people difficult being afraid of depopulation. Vitalija Stravinskienė has published a book, why don't you quote her? Tarp gimtinės ir Tėvynės: Lietuvos SSR gyventojų repatriacija į Lenkiją (1944–1947, 1955–1959 m. (Between Mother-country and Homeland: Repatriation of Citizens of Lithuanian SSR to Poland (1944–1947, 1955–1959), Vilnius, 2011, 510 p., ISBN 978-9955-847-46-5 (the title is obviously wrong, it wasn't a repatriation, it was forced migration) You don't know even Lithuanian bibliography.
• This article is not neutral, because it doesn't describe the robbery of Poles (and Jews) who left land, houses, furniture. Xx236 (talk) 07:12, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• This article is not neutral, because it quotes Lithuanian estimate 150,000 but doesn't quote Polish documented number of 197,000 emigrants from Lithuania.Xx236 (talk) 07:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

• Vilnius belonged to Poland for about 20 years. So it wasn't a Polish city.
• It was first mentioned in 1323 by Grand Duke Gediminas in a letter to German people. Vilnius was called as Vilna in the letter.
• Not all educated Poles were expelled. Only those, who didn't want to collaborate with Soviet authorities (same applies to Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and everyone else).
• The book's "Tarp gimtinės ir Tėvynės: Lietuvos SSR gyventojų repatriacija į Lenkiją (1944-1947, 1955-1959 m.)" name is not wrong. You can't tell that something is wrong when you haven't even read it. Don't judge a book by its cover – I hope you've heard this idiom.
• Why should robberies be mentioned at all? And furthermore, it's called nationalization (Soviet authorities did the same to every other nation and Polish people aren't an exception).
• Noone forbids you from quoting the Polish documented number of 197,000 emigrants from Lithuania number. The more different sources, the better. Isn't it? – Sabbatino (talk) 17:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Caption is hard to understand

Here's what the caption says: The Curzon Line and territorial changes of Poland, 1939 to 1945. The pink and yellow areas represent the pre-war Polish territory (Kresy) and pre-war German territory (Recovered Territories), respectively. The pink area is Kresy yellow area is pre-war German territory. Wouldn't it be better to say: The pink Kresy and white areas represents pre-war Polish territory, the yellow area pre-war German territory. Raquel Baranow (talk) 05:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

an estimated 15 million ethnic Germans from these areas

The number was lower, 12-13 million, not all of them expelled, many of them run away and didn't want to return.Xx236 (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

The text was introduced in April, without any discussion. A number of references were removed and controversial ones introduced.Xx236 (talk) 07:32, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

This number is cited to a Reliable Source; it is not controversial just because an editor does not like it. Parkwells (talk) 18:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Why do you cite the number? This page is about Poles. Why don't you edit pages about Germans Demographic estimates of the flight and expulsion of Germans? Xx236 (talk) 09:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

dwarfed - it's not a beauty pageant. This page is specifically about Polish people. If you want a synthesis, edit a synthesis. This is not the synthesis. Xx236 (talk) 09:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Please read your source. It says 12 million. You can't select one of two statements in one source, becasue you like 15 more than 12. Xx236 (talk) 09:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Name the Nazis who wanted to stay in Poland to be hanged. They preferred to become respected German citizens. Xx236 (talk) 09:49, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Stefania Kubrynowycz of Rokotyniv

What a deceitful propaganda is written here ("Soviet Soldiers get changed in to the uniform of banderites"), authored by ukrainian Volodymyr Serhijchuk, who is an apologist of crimes of ukrainian nationalists against jews and poles, and is a typical representative of historical negationism with regard to the crimes of ukrainians. Maybe banderites did nothing wrong at all? And all their known crimes were "actually" committed by their insidious enemies, who had a habit of "changing in to the uniforms of the bandits"? Maybe the massacre of Volyn was also committed by disguised soviets but not banderites? very convenient point of view, no doubt. And what about the alleged author of these lines about disguised soviets, Stefania Kubrynowycz of Rokotyniv, does she even exist? There are big doubts in this regard, as Serhijchuk never shied away from forgery in his "research" in order to whitewash the ukrainian history. And where is Rokotyniv located? Google doesn't know this place, all the requests about "Rokotyniv" lead to the text of this article only, referring to the works of Serhijchuk. And there is no hate. It is also a lie that makes this text a propaganda. And it is notable that this propaganda was written by one ukrainian "historian", and quoted here by another. It's very typical.94.181.218.44 (talk) 12:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)