Talk:Swiss Guard

Not bodyguard

Some members of the Swiss Guard are trained in close protection. These guards - is plain clothes - are bodyguards. The rest of the Swiss Guard are a ceremonial royal guard. They are not a 'Bodyguard' of the Pope.Royalcourtier (talk) 02:31, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

The information provided by user, Royalcourtier, is accurate. The ceremonial royal Swiss Guard serves a practical function with regard to preventative security, both as a threat deterrent, as a literal display of force, and, as a deliberately distracting, decoy force.

The actual visibility of the ceremonial royal Swiss Guard serves to deter threats; thus visibility of the ceremonial Swiss Guard is deliberately enhanced. The ceremonial royal Swiss Guard uniforms (including the traditional halberd) augment the visibility of the ceremonial Swiss Guard; in turn, the ceremonial Swiss Guard serves as an indicator of the presence of a security force.

Indication of the presence of a security force, provided by the presence of the ceremonial Swiss Guard, does not require the ceremonial Swiss Guard, itself, to be the indicated, present, security force, in order to function as a deterrent to potential threats. The presence of the ceremonial Swiss Guard communicates to observers that a security force is present- but does not indicate the identities of whom said security force is composed.

The vibrant, complex, Renaissance-inspired, ceremonial uniforms, demonstrate substantial and ongoing investment in security maintenance. The elaborate dress uniforms of the ceremonial Guard, display the access to vast resources, which is held by the Swiss Guard. Accessibility to resources is displayed in the form of the ceremonial Swiss Guard uniforms to imply possession of sufficient wealth (and, therefore, power) to maintain effective security. While the strength of defense is held primarily by the plain-clothes Swiss Guard, the strength of that defensive force is displayed by the presence of the ceremonial Swiss Guard, through the visible complexity of the latter's uniforms.

The ceremonial Swiss Guard uniforms are easily noticed by observers, and thus, are a source of distraction to would-be threats. Should a threat attempt to identify all present security personnel, the ceremonial Swiss Guard is immediately identifiable as a security force, and thus, presents potential threats with an obvious obstacle.

An attempt to evade the notice of the ceremonial Swiss Guard requires focus upon the ceremonial Swiss Guard, and, upon that which holds the attention of the ceremonial Swiss Guard. The plain-clothes Swiss Guard is granted an advantage by a potential threat's attentiveness towards the ceremonial Swiss Guard. The advantage is valuable time, which may be utilized by plainclothes Swiss Guard to identify, and neutralize, hypothetical threats- potentially, before being recognized as security; and, at least, while being substantially more difficult to continuously track, among the entire Swiss Guard, present. Dianaconda (talk) 11:26, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

How do "Swiss Guards" relate to Switzerland? Do they?

How do "Swiss Guards" relate to Switzerland? Do they? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.245.106.48 (talk) 13:22, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

In the history there was many mercenaries swiss guards corps on many european royal corts. Now in Switzerland ther is some law that permit to exist only Pontifical Swiss Guard. All guards have to have swiss citizenship (by birth or acquired). --Don Piotr (talk) 09:40, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Why do they need Swiss citizenship though? Wouldn't Italian make more sense, considering the Vatican is inside Rome? It seems strange for any State to maintain foreigners as the only military force. A conflict of interests to put simply (although this would happen to a degree regardless of the nationality, considering they would always be foreigners to the Holy See [unless the Vatican holds its own citizenship {which it might, I just don't know, and if it does, why not require the citizenship to be tied to them instead?}}). 2600:1700:6250:89A0:7DB6:176A:F288:CEAA (talk) 00:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

It is simply a very long established tradition for the Papacy to recruit its guard from Switzland. In the 16th century they would not have been Swiss citizens (the concept of citizenship is a more recent one) but they were born within the boundaries of the Swiss cantons or the sons of Swiss Guards who had stayed on in Rome after finishing their service. It would, as you say, seem more logical to recruit the Vatican's mini-army from Italian nationals but very ancient institutions tend to follow their own rules. There were in fact two Italian ceremonial guard units (the Noble Guard and the Palatine Guard) serving in the Vatican alongside the Swiss, until both were disbanded in 1970. Buistr (talk) 01:11, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Just read the article.

In the later 19th century [...] Guards in the Vatican were "Swiss" only in name, mostly born in Rome to parents of Swiss descent and speaking the Roman Trastevere dialect. [...] The modern Swiss Guard is the product of the reforms pursued by Jules Repond, commander during 1910–1921. Repond proposed to recruit only native citizens of Switzerland

--dab (𒁳) 14:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Rank of Feldweibel

It's not Feldwebel. Swiss use Feldweibel. Look this: Swiss' ranks and this: German's ranks --Don Piotr (talk) 09:33, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Notable Swiss Guard (section)

Perhaps a notable Swiss Guard section is needed? I am unsure of his allegiance/status, but I will start the list (to be edited) here with:

• Lorenzo Ponziano - Of papal troops, nearly married St. Frances of Rome 107.77.165.6 (talk) 23:35, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

He may have been "of papal troops", but as this happened in 1397, he was hardly part of a "Swiss guard". --dab (𒁳) 16:09, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 3 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move to Swiss Guard. (non-admin closure) KSFT ^(t|c) 05:02, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

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Pontifical Swiss Guard → Papal Swiss Guard – Plenty of sources seem to confirm this as an alternative. WP:CONCISE per WP:CONSISTENCY with most things Papal around Wikipedia. PPEMES (talk) 16:34, 3 July 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. — Newslinger talk 23:35, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. They have generally always been known in English as the Pontifical Swiss Guard. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:21, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
• Move to Swiss Guard for WP:CONCISE and WP:COMMONNAME. And per WP:SMALLDETAILS, the hatnote at the top pointing to Swiss Guards is enough disambiguation. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:10, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd support that per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Should hardly be WP:RECENTISM by now. PPEMES (talk)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Armory

The armory is regularly available for private tours to the best of my knowledge and various pictures exist of some of the firearms used by the guard. Is it possible to find one of these that have no copyright and add one to the page without triggering someone or some backlash? Dbdtw (talk) 20:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Garde Suisse.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:03, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Length of service

The article indicates that members serve a minimum of two years which may be extended by one or two years, implying a maximum length of service of four years. Where do the officers come from? Are they recruited as such or are they promoted from within?Bill (talk) 03:51, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Disbanded

At least 5 different times, so how can the claim that they are one of the oldest continuous units be true? 2A00:23C4:22D:CA01:9422:FDB0:4DE4:26FB (talk) 19:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Vatican citizenship

In the article on Vatican passports, it is said that Swiss Guard are (at least for their term of office?) citizens of the Vatican (I presume that that becomes a dual citizenship situation but don't know), might be worth a mention in the article. --136.25.157.83 (talk) 15:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)