Talk:Bans on Nazi symbols
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Poland
editI'm rather unclear as to how the display of Nazi flags/symbols is not banned in Poland, as Article 256 of their Criminal Code states (roughly): whoever publicly promotes a fascist or a totalitarian regime or promotes hatred against others based on national, ethnic, racial, or religious differences... will face a penalty of restriction of liberty or imprisonment for 2 years. Anyone care to look into this? 75.154.85.129 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC).
I live in Poland and confirm it's illegal. In Poland both, communist and nazi flags, are illegal (except historical arts or computer games which are not promoting such systems). It's because of occupations during WWII and mass murders by both systems. But I don't have any English sources to confirm that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.28.202.33 (talk) 13:46, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Embassy letters
editNot sure there's any need for images of scans of them directly in the article... AnonMoos (talk) 09:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
- There is no need for them; I have removed them. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Article title
edit"Modern" means more or less "after 1815". The Third Reich itself was an extremely "modern" phenomenon (whence "postmodernism"). What you want to express here is "Post-World-War-II use of Nazi flags", "use of Nazi flags after 1945". --dab (𒁳) 13:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed; I have retitled the article to reflect the time period it covers, and also to its purely legal scope. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Original research
editIt seems as though this article is largely original research on the part of User:Charles Ashburner; almost all the references are to private correspondence he has conducted with various governments. Given the reliability of the sources I am not sure that there is an actual problem here, but I think it would be helpful to have a discussion on the matter in case there is anything policy-related I'm overlooking. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Misleading introduction
editIsn't the lead misleading, as it suggests that a number of countries ban the Nazi flags. In fact it appears to only be Germany and France.122.59.83.216 (talk) 00:48, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Taiwan
editIt's says on the table that in Taiwan it is illegal to publicly display the Nazi flag, but there are news reports of people doing it and government officials saying it is a display of freedom of expression.
https://en.rti.org.tw/news/view/id/2009426 106.104.104.247 (talk) 04:51, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Unsourced section
editThis is partially unsourced list of tables, that also link to the Holocaust denial, but does it fail because of verifiability, and does not contain original research.
| Country | Public display of Nazi flags is legal | Exceptions |
|---|---|---|
| Albania | No | — |
| Argentina | Yes | |
| Australia | No[a] | Still legal in some regions. The Nazi salute is illegal in Victoria and Tasmania.[1] |
| Austria | No | — |
| Belarus | ||
| Belgium | ||
| Bolivia | ||
| Bosnia and Herzegovina | ||
| Brazil | ||
| Bulgaria | ||
| Cambodia | Yes | |
| Canada | ||
| Chile | ||
| China | No | |
| Croatia | ||
| Cuba | ||
| Czech Republic | ||
| Denmark | Yes | |
| Estonia | No | |
| Finland | ||
| France | ||
| Georgia | ||
| Germany | Artistic and educational contexts[2] | |
| Greece | — | |
| Hungary | ||
| Iceland | ||
| Iran | Yes | |
| Israel | No | |
| Japan | Yes | |
| Kazakhstan | ||
| Laos | No | |
| Latvia | ||
| Lithuania | ||
| Luxembourg | ||
| Malta | ||
| Mexico | ||
| Moldova | ||
| Monaco | ||
| Montenegro | ||
| Netherlands | ||
| New Zealand | Yes | |
| Nicaragua | ||
| North Korea | No | |
| North Macedonia | ||
| Norway | Yes | |
| Palestine | ||
| Peru | No | |
| Poland | Unless done as part of artistic, educational, collecting or academic activity.[3] | |
| Portugal | Yes | — |
| Romania | No | |
| Russia | ||
| Serbia | ||
| Singapore | Yes | |
| Slovakia | No | |
| Slovenia | ||
| South Korea | Yes | |
| Spain | When associated with criminal conduct. | |
| Sweden | No | — |
| Switzerland | Yes | |
| Taiwan | No | |
| Thailand | Yes | |
| Ukraine | No | |
| United Kingdom | Yes | |
| United States | ||
| Venezuela | No | |
| Vietnam |
Notes
- ^ Illegal in many states, applying to the vast majority of Australians.
References
- ^ "Nation-leading reform in Tasmania against Nazi symbolism including Hitler salute". The Advocate.
- ^ Oltermann, Philip (2023-05-26). "Berlin police investigate Roger Waters over Nazi-style uniform at concert". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2023-05-26.
- ^ "Kodeks karny (Penal code)" (PDF) (in Polish). Sejm. 2018. p. 101. Retrieved 2022-01-24.
2001:4451:8285:B00:4161:DF21:E022:9C70 (talk) 11:59, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'm in favor of adding sources and against removing useful content. This table started as a summary of the article's content, and gradually different editors added countries to it without citing sources, so I think it may need some cleanup. It's a sortable comparison table, letting the reader know at a glance which countries allow and which forbid the display of Nazi flags. I only disagree with the use of colored {{Table cell templates}}, allowing for edit wars (usually by anonymous editors) using color symbolism to imply that one or the other legal status is good ({{Yes}} or {{No Y}}) or bad ({{No}} or {{Yes N}}). --Fernando Trebien (talk) 23:47, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Israel
editThe provided citation states the intention, not the fact that such a law exists, and i couldn't find any evidence that it does. L29Ah (talk) 12:20, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Summary table
editIt would appear to be more accurate and consistent with the article's title for "flags" in "display of Nazi flags is legal" to be changed to "symbols". Mcljlm (talk) 13:29, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Nazi symbols in Ukraine
editThe phrase "However, this is often widely disregarded, and even Ukrainian military units such as the Azov Brigade continues to use the Neo-Nazi Wolfsangel insignia on its banner.[1] Moreover, at a nationalist rally held in the city of Lviv in 2018 it was reported that Nazi symbols were openly on display.[2]" and relevant sources in the Ukraine section is not necessary, because:
- No evidence or examples of the use of Nazi symbols by "Ukrainian military units" other than Azov have been provided.
- The interpretation of Azov's symbolism as Nazi is not confirmed by Azov himself[3][4][5][6][7], and this topic is not relevant to the article. Moreover, it is not completely clear how Wolfsangel insignia is prohibited. This would apply to the article if we were talking about openly Nazi symbols and its open use by Azov.
- The phrase about a nationalist rally at which Nazi symbols were displayed is distorted and misleads readers, because it is a memorial event in honour of the Ukrainian SS division, which was attended by division flags, which are formally Nazi symbols, but the rally was not Nazi, and was held in memory of Ukrainians who fought on both sides of that war, so this information is not suitable for the argumentation of the phrase "this is often widely disregarded", instead, this information should be used in the corresponding article: Galicia Division.
- Furthermore, there was no Nazi insignia at this rally, other than the flag of this division, as stated in the source, which mentions the use of Waffen-SS symbols, and this can be verified from other sources[8][9].
To argue that Nazi symbols are often used in violation of the law in Ukraine, it is not enough to cite the example of one organization that does not recognize itself as Nazi and one memorial rally. For this you need:
- Give examples of the existence of openly Nazi organizations in Ukraine that openly display clearly Nazi symbols.
- Give examples of systematic mass public events with an open demonstration of such symbols.
- Give examples of legal precedents when the use of such symbols was recognized as legitimate.
- All arguments should refer to cases when such a violation did not have a reaction from police.
- All arguments must refer to cases that occurred after the adoption of the relevant law on 09.04.2015.
References
- ^ Parfitt, Tom (11 August 2014). "Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists". The Daily Telegraph. Archived from the original on 12 August 2014. Retrieved 12 April 2024.
- ^ Liphshiz, Cnaan (April 29, 2018). "Nazi symbols and salutes on display at Ukrainian nationalist march". Jewish Telegraphic Agency. Archived from the original on March 31, 2019. Retrieved 18 April 2024.
- ^ "Полк «Азов» пояснив росіянам, хто є нацистами у нинішній війні". ukrinform.ua. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "Пронюк // Людина, яка намалювала символ «Ідея Nації»". acrains.com. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "Полк «Азов» пояснил значение символа на своем шевроне". 0629.com.ua. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "Знак "Ідея Nації". Що насправді означає символіка полку АЗОВ?". censor.net. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "Почему «Азов» — не «неонацистский батальон»". ms.detector.media. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "СС "Галичина" 28 квітня 2018 р." youtube.com. Retrieved 21 April 2024.
- ^ "Львів. 75 років дивізії СС "Галичина" 28 квітня 2018 р." youtube.com. Retrieved 21 April 2024.