Talk:The Rice (Houston)

Thanks for starting a page for the Rice Lofts/Rice Hotel, perhaps the greatest building in Houston.

The lead sentence in the History section is partly incorrect, "John and Augustus Chapman Allen retained ownership of the building after the Congress of the Republic of Texas moved from Houston to Austin, and they sold it to R.S. Blount for $12,000, in 1857, who opened the Capitol Hotel."

John Kirby Allen had already died in 1838. Augustus and Charlotte Allen separated in 1850, partly as a result of a long, bitter dispute regarding John Kirby Allen's estate. The Allen brothers had been using Charlotte's inheritance for their land deals, so it's natural that she would be entitled to at least some of her brother-in-law's estate. Augustus went to Mexico, and Charlotte ended up with the old Capital property. Therefore, Charlotte Baldwin Allen (not the Allen brothers) sold the property to Blount. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Correct statement, edit section title, edit section

Regarding the sale of the former capitol building to RS Blount from the Post Properties special report used as a reference, the article says,"John K. and Augustus Allen retained ownership of the building after the legislature moved to Austin. It was sold in 1857 to R.S. Blount for $12,000."

First, the article uses the passive expression, "it was sold," which was rendered into, "they sold," where "they"= the Allen brothers. The Post article omits the seller, and the wiki article is wrong. I have a citation that supports that Charlotte Allen sold the property to RS Blount, and I will amend the article accordingly.

Second, perhaps the article relies too much on an article written by the developers and owners of the property. I found some other material to cite, and will use this to amend and expand the history section.

Third, it would be somewhat more accurate to call this section "History of the Site" to reflect that the article is referring to three different buildings that had been used for various purposes.

Thanks to all of the editors of this page. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 14:50, 30 October 2014 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Delete unverified claims

"Power brokers from Houston and all over Texas met in the private Old Capital Club, across the corridor from the Flag Room. Here, on the burgundy leather banquettes and chairs, many deals were made and companies were born. The member list was a veritable who's who of Houston, including judges, lawyers, businessmen and other power brokers."

These statements are difficult to support, even though I think they are probably somewhat true. But, there's a bit of puffery here, too. It would help if I could find a list of members, or at least testimony about notable regular visitors. The "citation needed" has been tagged since December of 2009, and the problem has still not been addressed. I will delete this paragraph. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 19:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Editing the "Restoration" Section

The current version reads:
"In 1996 Houston Housing Finance Corp. financed the purchase and redevelopment of the hotel. Peter S. Carlsen and Dale E. Smith of the Houston Business Journal referred to the purchase as "creative".[13]

After being vacant for years, the lobby and "Crystal Ballroom" in the historic Rice Hotel have been restored to their original 1913 design by Houston real estate developer Randall Davis. The ballroom, with its 30-foot ceiling, restored mural, crystal chandeliers and outdoor terrace with views of downtown, has a colorful history of wedding parties, society balls and grand receptions.[14]

The original "Rice Roof" dance pavilion, where the likes of Tommy Dorsey once swung, has been transformed into a resident social area. And, the indoor pool, hidden under concrete in recent years, has been completely restored. The Old Capital Club, once a favorite watering hole for Houston power brokers, is now a richly paneled lounge with an adjacent terrace overlooking the city.[2]"

The article can be improved through a more neutral tone. Two of the sources cited are City Search and hotels.com. I think a characterization of the financing and redevelopment should be replaced with a detailed description. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 22:15, 8 November 2014 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Urge deletion of statement related to dancing spirits

"A Houston Chronicle article stated that the Rice Lofts are believed to be haunted by spirits dancing on the roof.[20]"

This seems to be inappropriate as encyclopedic content. I urge for its deletion.Oldsanfelipe (talk) 18:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Second Rice Hotel building

The second paragraph states "The Crystal Ballroom was air-conditioned in 1928, the same year that Houston hosted the National Democratic Convention." AND "The Rice Barber Shop was remodeled in 1930, the Crystal Ballroom was air-conditioned in 1935." Which one is correct? Johnnyboy755 (talk) 12:08, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Johnnyboy755: That's a good question. Thanks for raising it. I removed the reference to 1935. Jones installed the air-conditioning for the Crystal Ballroom the year of the 1928 Democratic Convention. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2015 (UTC)oldsanfelipe

Another question: The "Capitol" section states the Allen brothers "chose property on the south side of Texas Avenue between Travis and Main Street" for the capitol, but the second (current) Rice Hotel building is on the NORTH side of Texas Avenue, according to maps. Johnnyboy755 (talk) 01:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I was writing a lot of copy for this a few years ago and I may have made an error. I will take a look at the sentence and compare it to the source. The capitol property was owned by a partnership outside the Houston Town Company, and that partnership owned three lots on Block 57: 1, 2, and 11. They built the capitol building in the Spring of 1837 on the southeast corner of the block, where the Chipotle is currently located. Oriented by street names, it was the northwest corner of Main and Texas. The later hotels occupied a larger footprint, and the secondary sources are fast and loose when they say "same site." More accurately, the later hotels incorporated the former capitol property into hotels with expanding footprints. I have done a lot of original research on this, but it is not published, so it cannot serve as a Wikipedia source. The more I have researched this, the less satisfied I am with the secondary sources on this subject. The local history on this property is due for an update. Best, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 18:29, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

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Original Research?

I am re-reading this article and I am wondering if some of the material might be considered synthesis, which would be in violation of WP:OR. I am thinking specifically about the section on the Capitol Building. It has been awhile since any significant edits, and this might be a good place to start. Any thoughts? Oldsanfelipe (talk) 14:09, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Rename to Rice Hotel?

I think Rice Lofts might be served better by using the original name of the building, Rice Hotel, a name that was associated with this site for over 100 years, and the same name has been associated with the present building at this site from 1913 until the late-1990s. Since about 1998, the venue has been known as the Rice Lofts, the Post Rice Lofts, and its current legal name is the Rice Luxury Apartments, at least according to its internet listings. Given the relative stability and the historical significance of the name "Rice Hotel," compared to its other names, the article would probably be better served by the name change. It was built at the cusp of Houston's population and construction explosion under the name of Rice Hotel. Houston hosted the Democratic National Convention in 1928 when it bore this name. In general, it was a more important part of Houston when it bore this name, and most of the secondary literature refers to the building as the Rice Hotel. Thoughts?

When I make the request for WP: RM, I will link to this thread. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 14:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

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