Talk:USL League Two
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Nevada Wonderers
editThey aren't relocating. 205.188.117.9 21:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Stadiums on PDL Teams
editI am going to make templates for each division's stadiums in the PDL. ColumbusCrew29 19:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
2009 PDL page?
editI was wondering if we should start on the 2009 PDL (as well as the rest of the USL leagues') pages, as I've already got my tables set up, minus the New England Division. With Cape Cod folding, are they going to move some teams over, split the teams up among other divisions, or just have them play as a 4-team division until Portland starts up in 2010? Mtndrums (talk) 08:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
- USL haven't made the announcements for divisional alignments yet. There are likely to be a LOT of changes to the Northwest/Heartland setup especially, with the addition of the new teams in Kitsap and Victoria, plus the Texas division might be different with the addition of West Texas and Rio Grand Valley, so we don't know where the Utah teams or Mississippi Brilla are going. There's no harm in being prepared, but I think it would be better to wait until USL HQ announce the PDL alignments before we start putting the tables on there. I would hate for you to do all this work, and then have to re-do it later. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
- It actually wouldn't be too hard to adjust, it's merely a matter of moving the teams around to the correct division table. Mtndrums (talk) 00:59, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Previous PDL/USISL Season pages
editI've worked on standardizing the past PDL seasons as well as putting together pages for the missing seasons. If someone can go through and make sure everything's consistent and acceptable (minus not having 2001 playoff brackets yet and 1999 not having a list of changes from the previous season). If I need to add anything or make corrections please let me know. Mtndrums (talk) 21:45, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'll wander over and take a look... --JonBroxton (talk) 22:45, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. I know there's a few things missing, like playoff format explanations and the colors in the standings, but other than maybe referencing the page I can't think too much of anything else. I was also wondering about using orange in the standings to denote a team that recieves a bye into the PDL Semifinals (sort of like on the '08 W-League page). Mtndrums (talk) 00:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, other than a few typos and things which I corrected, I think they look great. Excellent stuff. I agree that we should use the orange color in that way too. One thing I did notice - we have a lot of work to do to create pages for all those old defunct teams! Red link overload!! Hehe. --JonBroxton (talk) 02:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- And we also need to take a look at the list of teams as well, there are some that aren't there, some that don't mention that they were (or are now) named differently. It's definitely a work in progress, that's for sure. I may give another season page or two a go before school starts back up Wednesday, but I think once I get my schedule settled down I'll be able to work on piecing everything together a bit more. Mtndrums (talk) 03:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- And one season left! I'll tackle that either Sunday or Monday most likely, since things do kind of get hairy in the playoffs, I believe. I've also started some missing team pages with whatever info I can find, though some of them are pretty sketchy info at best. I've also went through and split the second Miami Tango from the Miami Strike Force/Breakers, since they are actually two separate teams. (the explanation's on the Tango page). Mtndrums (talk) 19:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
- And we also need to take a look at the list of teams as well, there are some that aren't there, some that don't mention that they were (or are now) named differently. It's definitely a work in progress, that's for sure. I may give another season page or two a go before school starts back up Wednesday, but I think once I get my schedule settled down I'll be able to work on piecing everything together a bit more. Mtndrums (talk) 03:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, other than a few typos and things which I corrected, I think they look great. Excellent stuff. I agree that we should use the orange color in that way too. One thing I did notice - we have a lot of work to do to create pages for all those old defunct teams! Red link overload!! Hehe. --JonBroxton (talk) 02:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. I know there's a few things missing, like playoff format explanations and the colors in the standings, but other than maybe referencing the page I can't think too much of anything else. I was also wondering about using orange in the standings to denote a team that recieves a bye into the PDL Semifinals (sort of like on the '08 W-League page). Mtndrums (talk) 00:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Men's only
editSeems some people are offended about this article including the information that this league accepts men only. Why are people offended? Is the information wrong? Sources say no. Do all readers assume because a sports league is a male only sport league unless it states that it is a female or mixed sport league? Maybe male basketball players or better leagues aren't as macho? Of 19 (talk) 16:54, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Why just his league? Try raising it at WP:Football. Are there any mixed-sex football leagues? For me saying 'men's' wouldn't be a problem, 'men-only' comes across as Wikipedia:Point Red Jay (talk) 18:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) First, this isn't a schoolyard fight where you can throw unfounded accusations around. No one is offended. When I reverted you, it was because you were responding to the news story about Labbé. I'm assuming you want to make a WP:POINT about the league. If I'm wrong, feel free to explain why. The fact that it was unsourced and essentially ignoring WP:NOTNEWS came along later.
- USL is actually a men's league. Its parent body, United Soccer Leagues, is the parent of this league as well. It was the parent of a women's league: USL W-League and the wording about being a men's league was to distinguish those two leagues. That's the same situation with the NBA. You'll notice that other association football leagues do not list the gender of its participants. We only do so when it's needed to clarify the gender. That's not needed in the lede here. And that's the real issue, not offence, or incorrect information. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:35, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize that I didn't check the history and talk page prior to my edit! The difference for me is that other leagues have not specifically stated they are a gender-based men-only league, as far as I know (except, perhaps, for USL). Regardless of the fact that women do not play in other professional soccer leagues with male players, have they been explicitly excluded? Jack N. Stock (talk) 16:36, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- TBH, I don't know about the US, but in the UK I think it is a matter of law. Above a certain age (11 years?) it is a matter of law, preventing mixed-sex contact sports. Red Jay (talk) 17:12, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- I read that the FA has mixed competition up to U18. I'm fairly sure there is no such law (search online for "Niamh McKevitt"), and if you search around you will likely find soccer and other limited-contact sports played in amateur mixed leagues. You might even find a few women playing against men in full contact sports. Jack N. Stock (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know if they've been explicitly excluded any more than they've been explicitly included in other leagues. The question is really why Calgary even allowed her to try out let alone extend an offer to her without knowing whether the league did or didn't allow women (or any one of the other recognized non-male genders) to play. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:02, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- Women have been explicitly excluded in response to the request on behalf of Labbé. That is a differentiator. Other leagues have not made any such statement, as far as I know. It seems Stephanie Labbé and Calgary Foothills F.C. were surprised by PDL's response that the league excludes women from playing, so it was not common knowledge that women were not eligible to compete in the PDL. Considering that most women's leagues include in the lead something like "professional women's soccer league" rather than "professional soccer league," is it unacceptable to use a complementary description for leagues that specifically state they are exclusively men's leagues? User:Red Jay says above that "saying 'men's' wouldn't be a problem" so it seems you are the only person objecting to this. Jack N. Stock (talk) 22:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- It seems you're not reading the discussion well, as @Red Jay: was clear above, but fine, I'll ask the footy project to comment or take to an RfC. Which would you prefer? Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:42, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- I don't have a preference, and I'm not sure it's necessary. I think the best way to go is to keep the conversation here, but you could mention this on one or both of those forums to alert editors to this conversation. Jack N. Stock (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- It seems you're not reading the discussion well, as @Red Jay: was clear above, but fine, I'll ask the footy project to comment or take to an RfC. Which would you prefer? Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:42, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- Women have been explicitly excluded in response to the request on behalf of Labbé. That is a differentiator. Other leagues have not made any such statement, as far as I know. It seems Stephanie Labbé and Calgary Foothills F.C. were surprised by PDL's response that the league excludes women from playing, so it was not common knowledge that women were not eligible to compete in the PDL. Considering that most women's leagues include in the lead something like "professional women's soccer league" rather than "professional soccer league," is it unacceptable to use a complementary description for leagues that specifically state they are exclusively men's leagues? User:Red Jay says above that "saying 'men's' wouldn't be a problem" so it seems you are the only person objecting to this. Jack N. Stock (talk) 22:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know if they've been explicitly excluded any more than they've been explicitly included in other leagues. The question is really why Calgary even allowed her to try out let alone extend an offer to her without knowing whether the league did or didn't allow women (or any one of the other recognized non-male genders) to play. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:02, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- I read that the FA has mixed competition up to U18. I'm fairly sure there is no such law (search online for "Niamh McKevitt"), and if you search around you will likely find soccer and other limited-contact sports played in amateur mixed leagues. You might even find a few women playing against men in full contact sports. Jack N. Stock (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- TBH, I don't know about the US, but in the UK I think it is a matter of law. Above a certain age (11 years?) it is a matter of law, preventing mixed-sex contact sports. Red Jay (talk) 17:12, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize that I didn't check the history and talk page prior to my edit! The difference for me is that other leagues have not specifically stated they are a gender-based men-only league, as far as I know (except, perhaps, for USL). Regardless of the fact that women do not play in other professional soccer leagues with male players, have they been explicitly excluded? Jack N. Stock (talk) 16:36, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
This seems like one of those things that suffers from the fact that it is an American league, where women's sports and men's sports are often held on relatively more equal footing than the rest of the world. You wouldn't need to explicitly state this for, say, the Premier League. Anyone who pays attention to the sport in the US would realize that the league is only male, and it's common internationally for there to be rigid separation by sex. I have no idea why the USL or NBA pages feel the need to state that they are men's leagues since it isn't necessary for either, and I don't see why the need to state this explicitly is necessary either. That being said, it's kind of a harmless addition. I think using "men's" as Red Jay suggested would be good. Jay eyem (talk) 12:57, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
- To clarify, that was my edit, inserting "men's" (aside from specifying the sport involved, and I'm fine with "soccer" as it is now). I'm not suggesting or supporting "men's only." Jack N. Stock (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
This type of distinction is not required for sports where the genders are separated across all ages/countries. GiantSnowman 17:47, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
- You may be right. Look what I found: "Woman barred from men's football," 19 December, 2004. Jack N. Stock (talk) 01:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
"Notable professional players" section
editThis section is getting ridiculously long. Is there some kind of more restrictive criteria that we can agree on that doesn't list over a hundred different players? Jay eyem (talk) 01:08, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
- Such a section is not appropriate for a league. It's barely appropriate for a team! It could be safely removed. No need to have a new article with the list either. There are categories that can cover the players. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:53, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
No 4th Level League in the US
editUS Soccer only recognizes 3 Divisions of soccer in the US - Division I, II, and III. If they have made any changes recently to give recognition to a 4th level, please provide a source with proof that there is 4th level before removing the word "effectively". Or add "unofficially". Thank you! --Trödel 12:48, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Tom Danson I would also encourage you to visit United States soccer league system#Men's league structure, where it shows that U.S. Soccer defines anything below level three as amateur without a specific level assigned. In addition us U.S. Soccer sickos that also follow the U.S. Open Cup, can see both NPSL and USL League Two fall under Local Qualifiers based on U.S. Soccer not recognizing any level below level III. Demt1298 (talk) 14:20, 23 May 2023 (UTC)