Talk:Gilles-Courteau Trophy

Requested move 1 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus for move — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

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President's Cup (QMJHL) → President Cup (QMJHL) – Per WP:COMMONNAME (and it is also the WP:OFFICALNAME for what that's worth). A quick generic glance at G-News articles for the QMJHL championships seems to lean towards "President Cup" as the WP:COMMONNAME approximately 70% of the time. In a specific search, "President Cup" gets 1300+ hits while "President's Cup" gets 500+ hits.

My only qualm here is how to weight the reliable sources. The WP:OFFICIALNAME is singular (more specifically known as Coupe du Président) and most the usages of that term in the News hits come from local papers, mostly the English-speaking Atlantic provinces with Q teams. However, the more widely distributed sources seem to use the possessive name, such as NHL.com, CBC and CHL.com.

In this particular case, unlike with Stanley Cup Finals vs. Final (the league used name), I would probably weight the local sources as the more commonly used vernacular as they cover the subject more frequently, and hence more likely to use the team familiar to those who would search for, while the non-local sources may just be in error due to many other trophies that use the possessive. (President's Cup (disambiguation) and President's Trophy (disambiguation)) Yosemiter (talk) 02:11, 1 May 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 11:36, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose You need to be careful with your ghits. All results for President's Cup also show up in the President Cup because google plays with results that contain things like apostrophe s so your specific search is likely more like 800-500. Speaking as someone who lives in a city that might win this trophy in the next week I am a little shocked it is ever not in the possessive. People certainly never speak it without the possessive. -DJSasso (talk) 12:26, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I did say "seems to lean" and I did see that the possessive comes up in the singular search. Taking that into account, it would still be about 700 singular vs. the 500 possessive assuming the 500 are within the 1300 hits. But, yeah I just wanted to to see what others commonly use based on the generic search where only about 10 of the first 30 hits were President's (I am not a local obviously). Yosemiter (talk) 12:37, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I have a feeling its because of the awkward situation of a league that is heavily French but does cover some English regions. So some people copy it directly over from Coupe du President to President. But if the trophy was created in what was a mainly English league it would always have the possessive since that is more grammatically correct in English. Probably why the national sources lean towards the possessive because with a true translation that is what you would likely end up with rather than just carrying the word over. Sort of like what often happens when people just remove diacritics without the proper transliteration to the correct characters that would be used in place of the letter with the diacritic. -DJSasso (talk) 12:49, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

• Weak support: I have thinking about this one for a while. I grew up always knowing the trophy as President's Cup in english media, but I cannot ignore that the official name used by the league and in the event's logo is President Cup. Whichever the outcome, the article introduction needs to be reworded to indicate that the common name in English, varies from the official name used by the league. Flibirigit (talk) 13:20, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. I went to the QMJHL official site exactly as linked at the bottom of the article to an archived site, and did not see a reference to the cup's name either way. Then I clicked on the TEAM TROPHIES PDF link which says "President's Cup"; so I think the logo at the current website might be in error. I mean, the literal translation of "Coupe du President" is "Cup of the President", and the grammatically correct translation is "President's Cup". More importantly, that seems to be the most commonly used name in English for it too. The website usage might be the result of one webmaster's error. --В²C ☎ 17:25, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

  Regarding usage in reliable English sources... (and these are current), "President's" is most commonly used, but at least the Montreal Gazette uses "President":

  • 2019 QMJHL President’s Cup Final Preview
  • Veleno-led Voltigeurs have sights set on President’s Cup
  • QMJHL's Acadie-Bathurst Titan win President's Cup, head to Memorial Cup
  • Huskies blank Halifax 4-0 to nab QMJHL President Cup

  --В²C ☎ 17:45, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. It seems clear the WP:COMMONNAME in reliable sources is "President's Cup" per the above sources by B2C; even the nominator has presented sources showing this. And, as B2C points out, Coupe du President translates to "Cup of the President" or "President's Cup." It does not translate to the proposed title. Calidum 03:28, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Gilles-Courteau Trophy

Perhaps, the page should be renamed the Gilles-Courteau Trophy? GoodDay (talk) 01:01, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

• The Canadian Hockey League refers to the trophy in English as the Gilles Courteau Trophy, without the hyphen as used in French. Flibirigit (talk) 01:13, 18 May 2023 (UTC)